real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? 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(7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

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BBC - Homes - Property - Buying abroad Home TV Radio Talk Where I Live A-Z Index 29 December 2005 Accessibility help Text only BBC Homepage Lifestyle Homes Property Buying Buying at auction Viewing checklist How to rescue an empty property Buying checklist Money matters checklist Buying a property Buying abroad Auction glossary TV and radio Talk Newsletter Contact Us Like this page? Send it to a friend! Buying a property abroad Buying property abroad is more popular than ever, with increasing numbers of people following their dream in purchasing a holiday home, a buy-to-let, or moving lock, stock and barrel to the sun. If you're planning such a move, read our guide before you buy. In this article Location checklist Professional advice Costs Making an offer Buying in Spain Buying outside Europe Location checklist Before you start looking for a property, it's worth asking yourself a few basic questions, which should save you time and money in the long run: Do you prefer the town or country? Do you want to be inland or on the coast? Do you want to be isolated or in the thick of it? (Most people prefer to be within about an hour's travel time of a town.) How much outside space do you want? How close do you want to be to your neighbours? How close do you want to be to shops, bars and restaurants? Where's the nearest public transport, how often does it run, what time does it end? How far is the beach? How close are you to the nearest airport? How far is it to sports facilities, golf, tennis, swimming, and so on? How good are the local health and social services? Arts and entertainment - what's available in the area? Neighbours - what are they like and how often do you want to see them? If you're relocating abroad, take a look at the Practicalities checklist from Fresh Start to help you get organised for the big move. Professional advice Use qualified professionals to protect your interests and make the purchase of your new home a stress-free experience. Estate agents are a good source of advice. Only negotiate with ones that are officially registered and hold a licence. Ensure you have a good lawyer with an excellent command of English and the native tongue, to deal with the endless stream of rules and regulations. For instance, did you know that if you're buying in Spain you'll need to make out a will in Spanish before buying, or that you can inherit debts from a previous vendor? Costs Research all legal issues and costs involved. Your solicitor/lawyer will advise and assist you. Before you have decided on a property it's important to be fully aware of the legal process and costs involved in your puchase. Obtain professional advice and check your finances, taking account of these additional costs. Be well prepared with your finances; taxes can be high when buying. Set up a direct debit from a native bank account to pay for bills. Be careful not to miss payments and read those red letters; foreign banks are not lenient with those who don't pay up in time. If you're considering renting out the property when it's empty, bear in mind that advertising in the UK for a property abroad could result in tax demands from both the English and foreign authorities. Making an offer Make your offer in writing if possible (of course, subject to contract), and include not only the price, but also the amount of deposit, when you're prepared to pay it, when you're prepared to complete, what you understand to be included in the price (for example furniture and fittings if applicable) and, an often neglected point, that all machinery equipment and installations are in normal working order. For more information about buying abroad, the National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA) has a number of leaflets available. In Lifestyle DIY Living the dream Fresh Start Working abroad Holiday Uncharted Territory Elsewhere on bbc.co.uk Weather Business Languages Elsewhere on the web Buying property abroad The BBC is not responsible for content on external websites About the BBC | Help | Terms of Use | Privacy & Cookies Policy

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Colorado HomeFinder | Castle Rock Real Estate, Search Castle Rock Homes for Sale in the MLS Call 800.231.9153 | Contact Us If you already have an account, sign in here Castle Rock Colorado Real Estate - find out first about the newest Castle Rock real estate listings! You learn about Castle Rock homes for sale the day they hit the market - before other buyers. Automated HomeAlert emails you new listings that fit your personal home search criteria and gives you access to all the Castle Rock Colorado real estate listings. It's easy - Just submit your email address and home search criteria. Your email is not shared or sold to anyone. You incur no obligation or cost for this free Castle Rock real estate service. Our Privacy Policy: We respect your privacy. All information provided is strictly confidential and you can unsubscribe at any time. Colorado HomeFinder will never sell or share your information with any outside parties. Click here to review our Privacy Policy . 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Arvada Aurora Berthoud Boulder Broomfield Castle Rock Denver Englewood Erie Estes Park Evans Evergreen Firestone Fort Collins Fort Lupton Fort Morgan Frederick Golden Highlands Ranch Johnstown Lakewood Lafayette Littleton Longmont Louisville Loveland Lyons Nederland Niwot Parker Severance Superior Thornton Wellington Westminster Windsor Please select if necessary Arvada Aurora Berthoud Boulder Broomfield Castle Rock Denver Englewood Erie Estes Park Evans Evergreen Firestone Fort Collins Fort Lupton Fort Morgan Frederick Golden Highlands Ranch Johnstown Lakewood Lafayette Littleton Longmont Louisville Loveland Lyons Nederland Niwot Parker Severance Superior Thornton Wellington Westminster Windsor Please select if necessary Arvada Aurora Berthoud Boulder Broomfield Castle Rock Denver Englewood Erie Estes Park Evans Evergreen Firestone Fort Collins Fort Lupton Fort Morgan Frederick Golden Highlands Ranch Johnstown Lakewood Lafayette Littleton Longmont Louisville Loveland Lyons Nederland Niwot Parker Severance Superior Thornton Wellington Westminster Windsor Contact Information Name: * First Name: Last Name: E-mail: * (Valid email address is required to receive listings) Re-enter E-mail: * Phone Contact: * Home Phone: Work Phone: Information that will help us serve you better Your level of Interest: * I have a HIGH interest in buying a home and am ready to start visiting homes now. (Please provide your phone number) I have a MEDIUM interest in buying a home, but I just started my search and need to become more familiar with the market. I do not have any definite plans to move at this time. I am just curious about the listings that are currently on the market. I currently: * live in Colorado plan to move to Colorado Your Comments Any additional information that will help us better understand your needs I agree with Colorado HomeFinder Terms & Conditions Just getting familiar with Castle Rock Colorado real estate? Or, do you know the exact street where you want to live? No matter what stage you are in your Castle Rock home search, Automated HomeAlert is for you! The latest technology makes finding Castle Rock homes for sale easier than ever ! Automatic email notification of new listings and access to all the Castle Rock real estate listings from all the brokerages saves you time - and makes searching for homes fun. You are in control! Colorado HomeFinder lets you search for Castle Rock real estate at your own pace. If you are just thinking about a buying a home, no problem...the Automated HomeAlert System is a great way to get familiar with the Castle Rock Colorado real estate market. If you are ready to start seeing Castle Rock homes in person, just let us know. Our local, licensed Castle Rock REALTORs can show you any property on the market. Get matched with a great Castle Rock REALTOR When you're ready for the assistance of a Castle Rock REALTOR, we will match you with the Colorado HomeFinder REALTOR that knows your target market best. Colorado HomeFinder agents are hand-picked REMAX professionals that average over 15 years of experience. We're a Colorado company, not a national referral service with a "list of agents." Our REALTORs are some of the best in the business and are true Castle Rock Colorado real estate market experts! Colorado HomeFinder, RE/MAX Alliance 4770 Baseline Road, Suite 200 Boulder, CO 80303 Castle Rock HomeFinder | Buy a Castle Rock Home | Sell a Castle Rock Home | Castle Rock Homes for Sale | Browse Castle Rock Listings | Castle Rock Realtors | Castle Rock Mortgage | Castle Rock Relocation Call toll free (800) 231-9153 or local (303) 543-3083 to be connected with a local expert Castle Rock RE/MAX REALTOR. New listing emails: Castle Rock Colorado Real Estate Denver Real Estate | Boulder Real Estate | Fort Collins Real Estate | Colorado Real Estate Broomfield Real Estate | Castle Rock Real Estate | Evergreen Real Estate | Highlands Ranch Real Estate | Littleton Real Estate We're a Colorado company with a network of hand picked RE/MAX REALTORS in 17 local offices across the state. 2005, Colorado HomeFinder , all rights reserved. Each office independently owned and operated. Privacy Policy | Terms of Use

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Century 21 Real Estate: home buying, home selling, financing and property listings. español Put My Century 21 to work for you, simply register your email address and create a password. Once you're registered, you'll be able to • save property descriptions • store your search criteria • file agent information • build a custom library Find out more or register now! Already registered? Sign in . -- Welcome to Century 21 Real Estate Century 21 Real Estate is your online resource for home buying, home selling, financing and property listings. Whether it's a house, condo, or any other type of property, we can assist you with your real estate needs. Search for Properties Looking to buy a new home, condo or any other property? Search thousands of properties in our real estate listings. Search Property Listings » First Time Homebuyers Guide » View Our Buyer Service Pledge » International Century 21 Real Estate LLC is part of the largest real estate referral network in the world - with over 110,000 brokers and sales associates in over 30 countries and territories. Access our world offices today» Sell a Property Let our real estate agents create a customized marketing plan to sell your property. List your Property » View Our Seller Service Pledge » View Mortgage Rates View current mortgage rates, apply for a home equity loan, crunch numbers with home mortgage calculators and more! Apply for a Mortgage Now» Use Our Mortgage Calculators » Find an Office or Agent Find and contact a CENTURY 21 Office or Agent to handle your real estate needs. Find an Office or Agent » Quick Vote! Your vote counts! Let us Know Where do you spend the most time? Bedroom Living Room Kitchen Bathroom Dining Room ©2005 Century 21 Real Estate LLC. An Equal Opportunity Company. Equal Housing Opportunity. Each CENTURY 21 Office Is Independently Owned And Operated. All rights reserved. Information appearing on this site has been produced by or obtained primarily from Century 21 Real Estate LLC and its representatives and from CENTURY 21 franchisees. Century 21 Real Estate LLC is not responsible for the accuracy or completeness of the broker information, sales associate information, listing information or other information provided by our franchisees appearing on or through this site. Such information has been provided by independent third parties who are solely responsible for such content. Certain conditions and restrictions apply to System promotions. Terms and Conditions of Use.

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Buying Investment Property, RichDad.com Get the book that started it all. The #1 New York Times Bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad is the book that "rocked" the financial world, J.P. Morgan declares. The Wall Street Journal calls "Rich Dad Poor Dad a must-read for Millionaires" and USA TODAY says it's "A starting point for anyone looking to gain control of their financial future." Learn how to have your money work for you and why you don't need to earn a high income to be rich. ARE YOU READY T O G E T O U T O F THE RAT RACE? Rich Dad's Roads to Riches : 6 Steps to Becoming a Successful Real Estate Investor - Cassette/VHS This program, developed in conjunction with Time Life, will teach you about buying investment property. Missing any of this program can, and will create an investing nightmare when buying investment property. The program includes: - 5 Audio Cassettes -104-page Hands-on Workbook - 2 VHS Video Tapes Bonus Gifts - The book: '101 Ways to Massively Increase the Value of your Real Estate without Spending much Money' by Dolf De Roos - The Mortgage Calculator - Rich Dad's Real Estate Evaluator Rich Dad's Roads to Riches : 6 Steps to Becoming a Successful Real Estate Investor - CD/VHS This program, developed in conjunction with Time Life, will teach you about buying investment property. Missing any one of these steps can, and will, create an investing nightmare when buying investment property. The program includes: - 5 CDs -104-page Hands-on Workbook - 2 VHS Video Tapes Bonus Gifts - The book: '101 Ways to Massively Increase the Value of your Real Estate without Spending much Money' by Dolf De Roos - The Mortgage Calculator - Rich Dad's Real Estate Evaluator. Rich Dad's Roads to Riches : 6 Steps to Becoming a Successful Real Estate Investor - CD/DVD This program, developed in conjunction with Time Life, will teach you about buying investment property. Missing any one of these steps can, and will, create an investing nightmare when buying investment property. The program includes: - 5 CDs -104-page Hands-on Workbook - 1 DVD Bonus Gifts - The book: '101 Ways to Massively Increase the Value of your Real Estate without Spending much Money' by Dolf De Roos - The Mortgage Calculator - Rich Dad's Real Estate Evaluator Home | Sign Up | Events | Buy Products | About Rich Dad | Sitemap RealEstate Investment | RealEstate Investors | RealEstate Investing | Real Estate Investing FAQ | Getting Rich in Real Estate | Real Estate Books | How to Invest in Real Estate | Sample Articles of Incorporation | Buying Property | Biography of Robert Kiyosaki | Robert Kiyosaki Products | Success System | Financial Independence | Real Estate Courses | Passive Income Builders | Acquiring Passive Income | Passive Income Business | Types of Passive Income | Rich Dad Poor Dad Reviews | Rich Dad Poor Dad Book | RichDad | Rich Dad Poor Dad | Summary of Rich Dad Poor Dad | Examples of Personal Financial Statement | Personal Financial Statement | Financial Statement Example | Financial Statement Sample | Managing Money Tips | Cash Flow Notes | Winning in the CASHFLOW Business | CASH FLOW Quadrant Game | CASHFLOW Quadrant | CASH FLOW 101 Game | CASHFLOW 202 | CASHFLOW Game | CASHFLOW 101 Game | CASHFLOW for Kids | Financial Definitions | Cash Flow Definition | Achieve Financial Freedom | Financial Freedom Services | Manage Your Financial Freedom | Books on Financial Freedom | Get Out of the Rat Race | Rat Race Board Game | Escape the Rat Race | Give Up the Rat Race 2002-2003 | CASHFLOW is a Registered Trademark of CASHFLOW Technologies, Inc. CASHFLOW THE E-GAME Whatever your dream may be, CASHFLOW THE E-GAME teaches you money managing tips and how to get out of the Rat Race. Learn about money and finance in a fun, interactive environment. First Name Last Name E-mail Address --