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real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? 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(7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

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Mortgage Calculators and Mortgage Tools - Quicken Loans America's Home Loan Experts SM GO My Quicken Loans Login Great Rates. Expert Advice. Fast Process. Call 800-251-9080 To Get Your Rate   Refinance Refinance Center Learn About Refinancing Refinance Calculators Refinance Loan Options Contact a Refinance Expert Home Purchase Home Purchase Center Learn About Buying a Home Home Purchase Calculators Home Purchase Loan Options Contact a Purchase Expert Home Equity Home Equity Center Learn About Home Equity Home Equity Calculators Home Equity Loan Options Calculators Calculators Refinance Calculators Home Purchase Calculators Home Equity Calculators Contact a Loan Expert Loan Options Loan Options Refinance Loan Options Purchase Loan Options Home Equity Loan Options Contact a Loan Expert Bad Credit Rates   Refinance Calculators Home Purchase Calculators Home Equity Loan Calculators Contact a Loan Expert   Mortgage Calculators Our Quick & Easy process made us the nation's largest online lender. What To Expect With Quicken Loans: Apply Online or over the phone 800-251-9080 Choose a home loan option with expert advice Get your application documents online securely, sign online, or fax back to us We process your loan in as little as 15 days! Close at your home or office IT'S THAT SIMPLE with Quicken Loans , America's Home Loan Experts Mortgage Calculators from Quicken Loans Get Your Rate Now! Select Loan Purpose Refinance Purchase Desired Loan Amount Current Monthly Payment Expected Purchase Price Expected Down Payment Choose A State Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut District of Columbia Delaware Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming Most Popular Calculator: Our Mortgage Rate and Payment calculator gives you quick access to loan options and the difference they can make in your monthly mortgage payment. Refinance Calculators Use these mortgage calculators to find out if refinancing can help you lower your mortgage payment, consolidate and pay down debt, or shorten your mortgage term. Home Purchase Calculators Explore the tax advantages of owning a home, calculate how much home you can afford, the advantages and disadvantages of adjustable and fixed-rate mortgages, and more with our home mortgage calculators. Home Equity Calculators These mortgage calculators help you determine your best options for using your home equity to consolidate debt, make home improvements or finance major purchases. Other Popular Mortgage Calculators: Should You Refinance Your Mortgage? Mortgage Payment Calculator Home Value Calculator How Much Home Can I Afford? Refinancing | Home Loans | Home Equity Loans | My Quicken Loans Login Mortgage News | Mortgage Rates | Mortgage Calculators | Apply Online About Us | Careers | Contact Us | Feedback | Site Map | Help | Search Security and Privacy | Disclosures and Licenses | Terms of Use © 2000 - 2005 Quicken Loans Inc., All rights reserved. Lending services provided by Quicken Loans Inc., a subsidiary of Rock Holdings Inc. “Quicken Loans” is a registered service mark of Intuit Inc., used under license. Build 2741 2005-10-25 09:50:43

land For Sale Alabama

AFOA Forestland For Sale Opening Page Events Calendar News News Conferences Land For Sale Hunting Land For Lease Fee Hunting, Guided Hunts, Club Memberships Services & Supplies Archived 2004 News Archived 2003 News Archived 2002 News Archived 2001 News Archived 2000 News Archived 1999 News Archived 1998 News 2005 Calendar Past Events 2004 Calendar Past Events 2003 Calendar Past Events 2002 Calendar Past Events 2001 Calendar Past Events 2000 Calendar Past Events 1999 Calendar Past Events 1998 Calendar Past Events 1997 Calendar Past Events Forestland For Sale Alabama Forest Owners' Association (AFOA) AFOA does not check with sellers to learn if a propertyhas been sold. We rely on sellers to notify us. A property that has been listed for morethan a month or two has probably been sold. Members may list one forestland sale on this page each year at no cost as long as the price does not exceed 4 times the "current-use" bare-land assessment (approx. $1,000 to $2,400 per acre) plus the value of the standing timber and regeneration. Members who wish to list more than one timberland sale per year or list land priced higher than the above guidelines may list properties for a fee. The description will be color highlighted. Effective January 2005 , all professional land sellers must pay a minimum $30 to post an ad, including those sellers which represent or are represented by a member. Click here to Send Description of Your Land To Be Listed. ( 12/21/05) 38 acres for sale in Gosport, AL . Great dove field or home site, planted pine, hardwood timber, county road frontage, & Pond Site. Pond site was surveyed out by ASCS office. This tract would make a great rural residential site or recreational tract. It is convenient to Hwy. 84, Grove Hill, and & Monroeville. Asking $83,600. For more info, photos, maps, etc. visit www.forestryland.com or contact Clint Flowers of A&M Forest Consultants, Inc. at (251) 387-0787. Merry Christmas ! (12/21/05) 3,268 acres for sale on the Alabama River in South Clarke County , south of Carlton, AL. 4000+ sq. ft Lodge constructed of Pecky Cypress harvested from property with garden tubs overlooking river, manager’s house, helicopter pad, private plane hanger in Jackson, sold fully furnished, and more amenities too numerous too describe. Timber consists of old growth, ~23 year old, and planted hardwood. Established food plots. Excellent, deer, turkey, pig, & duck hunting. An additional 2,625+/- acres is also available with purchase of the 3,268. For more info, photos, maps, etc., visit www.forestryland.com or contact Clint Flowers of A&M Forest Consultants, Inc. at (251) 387-0787. Merry Christmas ! (12/20/05) 20 and 40 acres in Itawamba County, Mississippi ; fronts on Dorsey Evergreen Road, near I-22 and the TEN-TOM Waterway. Pine trees, some hardwood and fenced pasture, and a small farm pond. $3,000 to $3,500 per acre. Call (919) 489-0849. (12/05/05) 385 acres in Marion County, Al . 20+ year-old timber. $900/acre. Call (205) 631-2575. (12/05/05) 200-acre farm for sale in Walker County, AL , 12 miles north of Jasper off highway 195 on Bennett Road. Fronts on county road. 2bd/1bth house, barn, 2 storage houses, 1994 Ford 3930 tractor. Plantation pines recently appraised at $100k. Asking $650,000. Contact Keith Wood at (901) 854-1744 or keith.wood@ipaper.com , or Myron Wood at (918) 492-1949 or twood001@aol.com . (12/02/05) 405 acres in Greene County . Tombigbee River, frontage, hardwood timber. Camp house. Call Walter Tutt at (334) 534-1315. Visit Tutt Land Company . (11/28/05) 198.2 acres in Macon County , located on County Road 7, four miles from Interstate 85, in Shorter, AL. Eighty-five acres of open land and the rest in hardwoods and pines with hunting, home sites, and year-round water. Asking price - $2,800/acre. Will consider dividing into two tracts. Call (334) 727-4344 or (334) 398-4344. (11/18/05) 109 acres in Mobile County . Over 100ac in excellent deer hunting. 40 unit RV park. 1/2 ready to move in. Other 1/2 of park is 90% complete. City sewer available for entire property and water. 5 miles to city limits. 20 minutes to Gulf of Mexico. 40 acres in pasture. $3,600/ac. (256) 782-1444 (mobile). (11/16/05) 216 acres in north Walker County , close to Smith Lake, with deer and turkey. $1,500/acre. For details, call Perry Lollar at (205) 275-5251. (11/16/05) 40 acres FOR SALE IN BIBB COUNTY - For sale by owner off County Road 20. Property was cut in 1999 and spot planted. Some mature hardwoods left. Site index and hunting. Priced at $1,725/acre. Call (205) 908-0913, day or night. (11/11/05) 97 acres in Tallapoosa County , thirty miles north of Auburn, one mile from US 280. Road frontage, visibility, some loblolly sawtimber, forage for livestock, fences, perennial streams, game, building sites, 30X48 four-year old barn. Pond/pond sites, rolling Piedmont country. $239,000. Call (606) 247-2645 or (334) 524-4242. (11/07/05) 120 acres of timberland in northwest Autauga County , Alabama, with two-bedroom cabin, 10-acre duck pond, and timber. $1,800/acre. Call Mike at (334) 875-7229 (at night). (11/03/2005) 389 acres in Perry County (Marion) Alabama . FOR SALE BY OWNER: PRICE DROP $2,050/acre down from $2,150, FIRM - 30 DAYS ONLY! Will be given to agent in December and price will be raised to cover agent’s fee - buy now or pay later! 60 acres six-year pine/oak, 90 acres hardwood, 120 acres five-year pine, 75 acres three-year pine, and 42 acres open. Working timber and cattle farm - completely fenced. Large creek-crossing property with several pond sites; Black Belt land, two useable old barns, a well, food plots and winter grazing planted. Hunting. Paved road frontage and power available at the property line. Local property manager will consider continued management of property. Call (877) 553-6281 or (706) 662-7682 (voice mail). (10/27/05) 210 acres in Clay County, Alabama . Paved frontage on White Plains Road; creek on property. 40 acres of pine plantation, which needs thinning, and remainder in mature timber. $2,150 per acre or best offer. Call (256) 354-4325, (256) 283-1824, or e-mail to sonny@acs-isp.com . (10/25/05) 114 acres in Walker County, Alabama : 84 acres mature hardwood, 27 acres 2004 plantation; 3-acre lake and 1,200 feet county road frontage. $190,000. Call (205) 221-6960 or check website at www.jhgrahamllc.com for more information. (10/21/05) 204 acres in Fayette County, Alabama , located off of County Road 89: contiguous timberland planted in nine-year-old pine plantation - fully stocked - valued at $580 per acre. Total asking price $320,000. MINERAL RIGHTS INCLUDED. Also, food plots and many other pluses come with this land! Call (205) 344-5139, (205) 799-0291, or e-mail to hwoodard@mlforestresources.com . (updated 10/25/05). (10/12/05) 222 acres in Atkinson County, Georgia , 141 acres of which contains improved slash pine. Hunting. $2,500/acre. Call (334) 393-5036 or (334) 464-4004. If out, leave a message. (10/06/05) 330 acres in Coosa County , 5 miles south of Rockford. Mature mixed pine/hardwood timber with established roads, food plots, and plenty of water for hunting and recreational purposes. $2500/acre. Call Ron at (334) 850-7045. (09/27/05) HEAVILY Timbered tracts with great hunting available. Cruise info, maps, & pictures available at www.forestryland.com or Call Clint Flowers of A&M Forest Consultants, Inc. at (251) 246-4934. More than 20 tracts to choose from throughout South Alabama and Mississippi!!! Creek frontage, River frontage, road frontage... we've got a little bit of everything! (09/27/05) 300 acres in Cullman County between West Point and Jones Chapel. Mostly wooded with small pond, creek, deer, and other game. $3,500 per acre. Call Jim Tidwell (256) 734-7384 or cell 338-3974. (09/25/05) 61 acres in Chilton County. Two adjacent tracts (60.15 ac. & 1.33 ac.). 3 miles south of Montevallo. Bid opening: 2:00 PM, Friday, October 14. For bid prospectus & maps call Tom Brickman at (205) 870-5455 or (205) 936-2160. (09/23/05) 320 acres in Fayette County. Access by county-maintained roads. Various stages of timber growth, both pine and hardwoods. Deer, turkey, and small game. $1,200/acre. Call Grover Daniel (916) 362-8507 after 10 AM. (09/15/05) 80 acres in North Autauga County . $2,200 per acre. Excellent hunting land. Property located 1 mile west of I-65. Value in land only. For map to property call Bob Roberts, Dogwood Realty, LLC at (334) 850-6503 (truck) or e-mail at bobroberts@knology.net . (09/15/05) 220 acres in north Crenshaw Co., AL . Pine plantation approximately 8 years old. Approximately 25 miles south of Montgomery. Paved & dirt road frontage. Pond sites. Excellent hunting. $3,250/ac. Call Knox Norman at (334) 562-3623. (09/06/05) 410 acres in Lamar County , 15 miles West of Fayette. Excellent deer, turkey & dove hunting with 35 acres open field. Good site for developing a lake. One mile of Little Hell's Creek. Merchantable timber. $550,000. J. H. Graham, L.L.C. , (205) 221-7999. (08/31/05) Sealed Bid Sale September 29, 2005. One tract 179 acres; the other tract 361 acres, Clay County, Alabama. The minimum acceptable bid is $175,000 on the 179 acre tract and $385,000 on the 361 acre tract. Elevations over 1,400 feet with excellent mountain vistas. For a combined bid on both tracts as a whole (540 acres) the minimum acceptable bid is $560,000. Portions of both tracts join paved county road. Stephens Realty (334) 863-6412. (08/25/05) 80 acres in Autauga County , off U.S. 82. Billingsley area. Year round stream. Clear cut and planted pines in 1990. Joins International Paper. $2,000 per acre. Contact Harold Smith at (334) 281-1836 or lsmith121@charter.net . (08/23/05) 38 acres in Wilcox County near Kimbrough, mixed pine and hardwood stand, NE1/4 of NE1/4 of Section 1, T12N - R5E for $79,000. Call Hudson Hines (251) 564-1457 or at night (251) 575-7696. (08/17/05) 56 acres in Wayne County Ms. near Chatom Al. Mixed mature Hardwood and Pine Timber, power and water available, public road access onto property. Great hunting and fishing. Chickasawhay River borders property on the western side. Beautiful camp or home site overlooking the river. $3000 per acre OBO. For more information call Marlon Giles @ (601) 735-3892 (modified 08/26/05) . (08/02/05) 491 acre tract located in Russell County , Alabama near Pittsview with ten-year old pine stand. Gravel Road and Paved Road Frontage. Excellent timber-growing land. Land is offered for sale in two tracts or as a whole. Sealed bids due Tuesday, September 6, 2005 @ 2PM EST. SELLER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE ALL BIDS . For more information, contact bette.carnell@wachovia.com or call (706) 571-9877. (07/22/05) 80 acres in Wilcox County , cut over in 2002. Excellent timber growing land. $1,500 an acre. Call Ken Lowry at (334) 272-1261. (07/14/05) 92 acres in Bullock County . Excellent deer and turkey hunting tract located at Blues Old Stand. $3000 per acre. Contact Will Curtis at (334) 319-1815 or chill222002@yahoo.com . (07/08/05) 173 acres in Coosa County close to Lake Mitchell for $1,734 per acre. Value in land and timber. Call Bob Roberts, DOGWOOD REALTY, LLC at (334) 850-6503 or bobroberts@knology.net for map/information. Updated 10/11/05. (07/06/05) 70 acres in Clarke County, Mississippi. . Mostly 12 yr. old pines. Gravel rd. frontage. 3 green fields with shooting houses. Electricity available. Excellent deer hunting. $1375 per acre. Call Paul at (601) 735-3717 or (601) 270-7220. (06/22/05) 40 acres in Washington County : 16-year old replanted timberland located 5 miles south of Deer Park. Call Johnny D. Jones at (251) 777-8533. (06/16/05) 601 acres in Perry County , north of Marion, various stand types, road frontage, food plots, power and public water available for $901,500. Call Hudson Hines at (251) 564-1457. (06/02/05) Visit our Web Site at www.iplandsales.com . We have property available across the south. Regional sales coordinators can help you locate land that fits your needs. Check the website for listings and to find a sales coordinator that can help you in your area of interest. Blue Sky Timber Properties, LLC. (06/02/05) 197 ac North Autauga Co ., AL near Billingsly on County Road 1. Property includes 100 ac merchantable pine and hardwood timber. Paved road frontage. Public water and power accessible. 13 ac North Perry Co ., AL near Heiberger. One year old planted pines. One green field. Paved road access on Coon Landing Road. Public water and power accessible. Just minutes to Highway 5. Approximately 30 to 45 minutes drive South of Tuscaloosa. 82 ac Perry Co ., AL near Sprott on County Road 130. Call Tonya Johnson, Robjohn Realty Inc . (334) 289-1855. (06/01/05) 58 acres in Lamar County , Alabama. Big mature hardwood. Bottomland with creek; excellent hunting. Near Detroit, AL. $95,000. Call Joel Hubbert at (205) 412-3825. SOLD (06/01/05) 200 acres in Prentiss County , Mississippi in mostly 13-year old pine plantation about 14 miles east of Boonville, MS off Highway 30. Round frontage on 2 county roads. Good hunting and creek. $1250/acre. Call Joel Hubbert at (205) 412-3825. updated 7/22/05 (06/01/05) 1,142 acres NEAR MOBILE (and I-10), fronting Pascagoula River . Oxbow Lake, Fishing Slough, Duck Pond(s). Over $800/acre timber value, cruise available . Old Growth Hardwood-Pine, Pine Plantations, & some Regeneration HW. All timber unthinned. Great Deer, Duck, and Turkey Hunting... Even bear sign! Asking $1,400 per acre . Call Clint Flowers at (251) 246.4934, e-mail: clintflowers@forestryland.com , or view online at: www.forestryland.com . (06/01/05) 7.3 acres in Chilton County . Oak and pine timber. Price negotiable. Call Mary A. Daniel at (323) 757-2440. (05/23/05) 57 acres in Choctaw County . $1200/acre. Contact John Crook at (256) 409-7006 or mjnumber2@aol.com . SOLD (05/19/05) 401 acres in Perry County . 20 year old pines on 90% of property. Good road frontage. Mostly flat land. 10 green fields. Great investment. Only $2,150/acre. Contact Brad Adair (205) 824-3515. updated 9/28/05 (05/13/05) 360 acres, Madison County , Hunting land, good road system, ponds, springs, mature timber and 15 year regeneration, excellent deer herd and turkey flock, Contact Colin Bagwell (256) 852-4050 or your.forester@mchsi.com . (05/12/05) Land Auction June 25, 2005 10 AM. 400 acres located in Bankhead National Forest, Lawrence County, Alabama. Contact Chuck Crump, AmeriSouth Auctions (256) 353-7525. PENDING (04/11/05) LAND FOR SALE: Clarke County., 306 acres @ $1,350/ acre. 13 year old pines, food plots, on Bassett Creek! READY TO SELL!!! Contact Clint Flowers at (251) 246-4934. Many other properties, maps, and pictures available at: www.forestryland.com . (04/07/05) COURT SALE. 106.6 acres in Winston County. Land & Timber. T10S, R9W, Sec. 10 & 15. Auction at 11:00 AM, Friday, April 29, 2005. For information call (205) 932-0469 or (205) 612-7900 or write to michaelburrow@charter.net . (04/04/05) Clarke County: 40 + acres of clear cut: $60,000; 36.47 acres of dirt road frontage, unrestricted tract that can be broken down or sold as a whole: $70,000. Both properties in Gainestown. Hudson Hines (251) 564-1457. (04/04/05) Perry County: 471 acres : $701,500; 601 acres : $901,500; 130 acres : $200,000. Hudson Hines (251) 564-1457. (04/04/05) 78 acres in George Co., MS , $160,000 - mixed hardwood/pines. Sec 9, T1S R 7W. (601) 735-5016 after 6 PM. Lumberland, PO Box 482, Waynesboro, MS 39367. (03/22/05) 1242 Acre Tract -Timber, Hunting and Recreational investment; various timber stands, interior road system, and 14 acre lake; located on the Pickens and Tuscaloosa County line. For information call Dale Lancaster at Midsouth Forestry Services, Inc. at (205) 364-7145. (03/22/05) 139 acres in Clarke County near Silver Creek, only minutes from Alabama River and Claiborne Lock and Dam, thinned plantation with food plots and public water and power are available. $355,000. Hudson Hines (251) 564-1457. (03/10/05) 134 acres in Pickens County , Alabama on County Road No. 63. Located in Section 17 and 18 Township 22S, Range 13 W, near Mitchell Bluff Cemetery. Good hunting with small pond. Electricity and county water. Price: $1,250 per acre. Call John Davis after 7:30 PM at (405) 396-8180. (02/28/05) Seven timberland tracts for sale on the Cossatot River and Bakers Creek near Gilham Dam in the Ouachita Mountain Range, Howard County, Arkansas (2,359 total acres). Property has dual recreational and timber value. Kayaking, canoeing, camping, hiking, hunting and fishing. Bid opening date is March 24, 2005. Maps and timber volumes can be viewed at www.reynoldsforestry.com ; call Reynolds Forestry Consulting at 870-234-0200 (ext 1203); colleen@reynoldsforestry.com . (01/27/05) 320 acres in Calhoun County between Ohatchee and Southside. Property lays East of Hwy 77 and has deeded frontage to Hwy 77. Property consist of 10yr old natural regeneration pine, mature hardwood stream bottoms, 30acr of mature hardwoods by lake, 600 feet of lake frontage, 600 feet of creek frontage. Deer, Turkey and duck are abundant. Property has green fields, shooting houses and a good interior road system. Great for recreation or development. $2500.00 per acre. Call Joey Cooper at (256) 268-0498. SOLD (01/27/05) 159 acres in Marengo County , Alabama: Section 21, Township 12, Range 1 East with a 21 acre, 12 year-old pine plantation. Asking Price $268,700 (includes appraised timber value of $95,000). Second Parcel: 36 acres in Marengo County (same owner as first parcel): Section 16, Township 12, Range 1 East. Asking Price $32,408 or $900.22 per acre. Contact Holly Woodard at (205) 799-0291, 758-6182, 344-5139 or hwoodard@mlforestresources.com . (01/14/05) 208 acres in Franklin County for sale $192,000 Alabama (Northwest Alabama). Branch and underground spring. This is Dirt price but can get option for timber Planted 20 yr old pine, Hardwood, and 40 acres of 30 year old natural regeneration pine. 1 mile from beautiful 6800 acre Lake. Deeded easement to property, no road frontage. Public Water and Electricity 1700 feet from property line. Deer and turkey habitat. Lays Gently rolling with much flat. Ideal for wildlife food plot construction with much flats. Gated access. Contact Neal Taylor at (256) 332-7377, (256) 810-5552, or henrvt53@aol.com . SOLD (01/14/05) 469 ac in Greene and Tuscaloosa County . 322 ac in plantation pine from 3 to 11 years old. Site indexes for loblolly pine from 76 to 85. 8 green fields and a 16 ac beaver pond for duck hunters. 7.5 miles north of the Knoxville I-20/59 exit. Approximately 30 miles west of Tuscaloosa. Paved road access. Power and water accessible. Robjohn Realty Inc . Tonya Johnson (334) 247-2430 cell, Demopolis office: (334) 289-1855. (12/15/04) SEALED BID AUCTION : Property #1 : 681 acres in Henry County, Alabama near Abbeville. Offered in 2 tracts or as a whole, located on County Road 222. Tract #1 is 298 acres and Tract #2 is 383 acres. Property #2 : 255 acres in Henry County, Alabama near Abbeville located on County Road 217. Both properties are planted with 5-6 year old pines and have abundant wildlife. Sealed bids will be due by Monday, January 10, 2005 @ 2 PM EST. For complete auction details please visit our website, www.tranzon.com or contact Jeremy Masey at 1-800-942-6475. (12/14/04) 20.9 acres in Clarke County near Greenwood north of Grove Hill with 750 ft frontage on Goodhope and Thomasville Rd. $62,000. Call (256) 881-5139. (12/06/04) 78.9 acres in Noxubee County , MS, Mashulaville area - forestland or timber for sale: W1/2,NE1/4,S5,T14N,R15E. Mostly mature hardwood and pine timber in 55 to 75 year age class with 25 to 30% pole grade pine material. Contact Bill at (662) 234-5864 or 233 St Andrews Circle, Oxford, MS 38655. (11/24/04) 1080 acres in Macon County . Premier hunting and recreational property located in Central Macon County. Property consist of pine plantation, hardwoods, creek bottom, and excellent duck habitat. Improvements include a main lodge, guest house, barn with shop, game processing room with walk in cooler. Excellent interior road system, paved road frontage and dirt county road frontage. There is 3.4 miles of frontage on Calebee Creek which provides some of the best deer habitat around. Intensive wildlife management over the past 10 years have created one of the finest turn-key tracts on the market today. The property may be divided into 767 acres and 313 acres, the price per acre is $2860/ac. Contact Will Marks, www.landmarkslandco.com , (334) 832-7300 or wmmarks@mindspring.com SOLD (11/18/04) 210 acres in Jackson County . Hunter’s heaven. 12,000 square foot horse barn, 3000+ square foot bed and breakfast retreat, view of Paint Rock Valley Mountains. Contact Colin Bagwell (256) 852-4050 or your.forester@mchsi.com . Modified 08/04/05 . SOLD (10/25/04) 123 acres in Clay County , Waits Road area, Sealed Bid Sale, November 18, 2004. For bid package call Stephens Realty (334) 863-6412. (10/18/04) 520 acres in Lamar County. Off of Steens / Vernon (County Road #9) about 4 miles from MS line. 80 acres of mature large timber, the remainder is planted in 5-7 year old pine plantation. Excellent hunting with deer, duck, turkey and squirrel and established food plots and shooting houses. Duck hunting is enhanced by a 32 acre beaver pond, sloughs, old creek runs and about 2 miles of Yellow Creek running through the property. Interior access roads through property and 4-wheeler bridge across creek. $655,200. Call (662) 327-4676 for information. SOLD (10/05/04) 160 acres, Northern Clay County on Shinbone Ridge for $168,000, timber cut in 2002, mountain land, elevation 1,060 to 1,480 feet, does not join a public road, good investment and hunting land Stephens Realty (334) 863-6412. SOLD (09/10/04) Lamar County: 30 acres. Mostly young pine timberland. Small creek. Highway frontage. Good hunting with roads & green field. $1,200 per acre. 40 acres. Same type land. Access road but no easement or road frontage. $800 per acre. Call Joel Hubbert at (205) 412-3825. (09/01/04) Visit http://www.alalandco.com to see all of AlaLandCo’s listings or call 1-256-825-4331 for a showing! 440 acres, Lee Co .--10 minutes from Auburn, nice big creek bottoms, 10 yr. old planted pine, terrific deer & turkey hunting, county road frontage. Will divide into 2 or 3 tracts. $1,100,000; 377 acres, Talladega Co .--Cotton & soy farm in the city of Talladega. Borders nice new neighborhood and the Bemiston community. Residential developer’s dream at $2500 per acre. $942,500; 164 acres, Clay Co .--This recreational/ hunting tract has it all! Rustic 3 BR, pine cabin on beautiful, large, swift, rocky creek. Canoeing, fishing, great deer & turkey hunting, awesome mountain views, many spring fed hardwood bottoms, good timber value. $328,000 SOLD (08/26/04) 453 acre tract in southeast Marion County. Frontage on paved road and New River. Bid date Sept 30th @ 2:00 p.m. For more information visit website at: www.jhgrahamllc.com or call (205) 221-7999. (08/26/04) 40 acres in Noxubee County, Mississippi . One mile North of Macon, MS, 30 miles West of Aliceville, AL. Timberland and recreational property. CRP income $1900+/yr. (planted pine, 10 & 13 yrs old, with riparian stream). Great hunting. $2000/acre. Call John Alford at (954) 561-1858. Editor's note (10/12/04): advertised price per acre was reduced by seller to $1500 from $2000 and location was modified to 25 miles W. from Aliceville from 30 miles. (08/06/04) 5 to 300 acres in East Central Alabama. Owner Financing Available. Timberland, Hunting Land, Pastureland, and Premium Home sites. Visit http://www.robertking.net . SOLD (07/23/04) 370 acres in Macon County. Excellent hunting and timber investment, paved frontage with water and power run into property, nine food plots, internal road system, 2 lakes, pine plantation and hardwoods , some open land. Between Tuskegee and Union Springs east of Hwy 29. $2,297/acre. Contact Will Marks, Landmarks Land Company , at (334)832-7300 or wmmarks@mindspring.com . Under Contract (07/13/04) 80 acres in Clay County off Alabama Hwy. 77. Property fronts two sides of Antioch road. Has year round water, roads, some timber. Food plots and excellent hunting with a variety of wildlife. $150,000. Contact Mr. or Mrs. Hopewell at (205) 274-0004 or nhopewell@otelco.net . Updated 06/27/05. (06/24/04) 126 acres in Elmore County on Rifle Range Road. Excellent hunting. Beautiful view all surrounded by rolling hills of pine plantation. Call D. S. Hopson Farms, (985) 898-1972 or 789-7330. (06/24/04) 64 acres in Elmore County on Rigsby Road. Some timber. Call D. S. Hopson Farms, (985) 898-1972 or 789-7330. SOLD (06/24/04) 103 acres in Bullock County. 65 acres in planted pines age 18 & 14. Balance in hardwoods. Direct access to State Highway 239 near Smuteye community. $1,650 per acre. Write to Dr. James S. McLelland at jsmtreefarmer@aol.com . SOLD (05/20/04) 164 acres in Clay County. 150 marketable mature hardwood. Small 3 br hunting cabin with central h/a. Food plots, creek, spring fed branches. Good fishing. Excellent deer, turkey and upland game hunting. $260,000. (256) 547-9522. ((05/17/04) www.farmsandtimber.com is a commercial website with links and contact information for numerous land sales companies. (03/28/04) 40 acres in Autauga County between Selma and Prattville, north of 14 off CR 1, deeded access, plantation and areas of mixed pine and hardwood for only $63,000.00. Hudson Hines, (251) 564-1457. (03/24/04) 1,656 acres in north Mobile County. Includes a 3 bedroom house, garage and utility building. Excellent stands of longleaf pine. Gallops Creek runs through property. Bid date: May 26, 2004. For bid package, call Jessica Little, Larson & McGowin, Inc., (251) 438-4581. (03/16/04) Three tracts of land in Sumter County, Alabama: 80 acres -- http://www.billmackeyproperties.com/livingston80ac.html SOLD (03/03/04) Approximately 6 2 / 3 acres in Macon County. Ideal for a trailer site. Will sell for $6,000. Call Mrs. Ida Catherine Richardson at (334) 727-1560. (slightly revised 7/14/04) SOLD (02/11/04) 7,174 acres in Jasper County, Mississippi. Timberland and recreational property. To be offered as a whole tract or on individual tracts ranging in size from 43 acres to 1,447 acres. Sealed bids to be opened on April 14, 2004. For additional information and bid package, call Greg Wittendorfer, AmSouth Bank Natural Resources Department, (251) 438-8359. SOLD (11/11/03) 122 acres in Randolph County for $244,000 located on paved road, partly in the city limits of Roanoke. No significant merchantable timber. Stephens Realty (334) 863-6412 dstephens@communicomm.com (11/04/03) 601 acres in Perry County north of Marion for $901,500.00*. Tract is on CR 29 and has plantations, and mixed pine and hardwood timber. Tract can be sold as 130 acres for $200,000 * or 471 acres for $701,500*. Hudson Hines (251) 564-1457. * revised from $844,000, $182,000, & $662,00, resp., 03/22/05 . SOLD (10/13/03) 70 acres in Clay County near Millerville. Timber recently cut except 10 acres on backside of creek. County road is the west boundary line. Will sell for $850 per acre and cut the remaining timber or will sell for $850 per acre and add remaining timber value to sales price. Contact Larry Jones at Thornton & Associates, Inc. at (334) 567-5436 or lrjones01@bellsouth.net . (10/09/03) 1,885 acres in Geneva County, Alabama and Walton and Holmes Counties, Florida. Auction November 8 at 11 AM. Call J.P. King Auction Company 1-800-558-5464. (09/06/03) 290 acres in Coosa County near Goodwater. Hwy. 9 is west property boundary in Section 33 & 34, Township 24 north, Range 20 east. Excellent hunting, creek, adequately stocked young pines and hardwoods as well as larger timber. Will bid in 5 parcels or total acres.Bid opening at Cecil’s Restaurant, Alex City, October 10 at 10:30 AM. Call Pennington Forestry at (205)596-3219 or 712-0995. (08/04/03) Eiland Forestry and Real Estate has several Recreational and Timber Tracts listed in central Alabama . Please contact us at (205) 655-0191 or on our website at EilandForestry.com for maps and locations. (07/01/03) John Hall & Company has several hunting, recreation, & timber investment tracts listed for sale in Bullock, Clay, Conecuh, Crenshaw, Dallas, Lowndes, Macon, Marengo, Monroe, Montgomery, Pike, and Russell counties. Acreage ranges from 50 to 2,500. Call 1-800-864-1281. SOLD (06/20/03) 200 acres in St. Clair County. 1000 feet frontage on County Road 22. Mostly hardwoods. 2 acre fishpond. 4 game food plots. $1550/acre. Contact Chip Grizzle at (205) 714-1004 or cgrizzle@brasfieldgorrie.com . SOLD (06/20/03) 80 acres in Blount County on Narrows Road between Hwys 75 & 79. 1/4 mile county road frontage. Surveyed. Call (931) 728-2358. SOLD (06/06/03) 163-acre farm in Cleburne County. Five miles off I-20. Includes barn, 1300 feet of river frontage, bass pond and 14 acres of bottom land. The remaining 143 plus acres is mature hardwoods. Great hunting tract for deer and turkey. Price reduced to $1800.00 per acre from $2250.00 per acre. (09/03/03) Call Tom at (256) 396-0025. (06/03/03) 40 acres in Covington County to be sold by sealed bid on July 17, 2003 at 10:00 AM. Mostly mature longleaf and slash pines surrounded by Conecuh National Forest. Call (251) 867-7724. SOLD (05/30/03) 231 acres in Randolph County. Court ordered auction, June 14, 2003, at 9:00 a.m. (CST) on the steps of the Randolph County Courthouse in Wedowee, AL. To be sold in tracts and/or as a whole. Prime hunting land. Call 1-866-814-5297. (05/02/03) 81 acres in Covington County. 18.9 in CRP 15 year oldpines, 50 acres in 5 year old pines, Balance in native hardwood. 2 branches, 3springs. 3 bedroom, 1 bath, 1200 sq. ft. wood frame farm house on Cothan Driveoff of Rose Hill Road. Call C. V. Wallace at (334) 347-9709. (02/22/03) 40 or 80 acres in Choctaw County. 8 year old pine timber with great hunting and easy access from paved roads. Just east of Butler & 45 minutes from Meridian, MS. $1500 per acre. Contact B. J. Allen at (239) 283-4998 or bjall@aol.com . (02/21/03) 191 acres in Jackson County. Some open, some wooded, 1.5 paved miles of frontage on Jackson paved roads 43, 38 and 49 , public water, adjoins public school, $1545 per acre. Contact Howell Smith at (256) 377-1148 or dianews@wwisp.com . (02/08/03) 160 acres in DeKalb County. Auction at Fisher Crossroads: 10 AM, Saturday, February 15. For details call Dempsey Auction Company at 1-800-336-7739. Click here to visit sale webpage. (02/05/03) 250 acres in Crenshaw County. Mixed pine & hardwood timber. Good hunting. $2,250 per acre. Sell all or may divide. Call Mary P. Carlton at (334) 227-4660. (01/07/03) You may list land for sale at www.landbook.com at no cost for the next 6 months. Click here to view Archived Land for Sale (land that was listed on this page in the past) . (00/00/00) $15 PER UNIT (THIS IS SIX UNITS) X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 1 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 2 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 3 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 4 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 5 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 6 Contact Information: Alabama Forest Owners' Association, Inc. P. O. Box 361434 Birmingham, Alabama 35236 Phone: (205) 987-8811 Fax: (205) 987-9824 Email: AlaFOA@aol.com

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Members 1st Federal Credit Union - Home Equity Loan Rates Thursday, December 29, 2005 Home | About M1 | Contact Us Events | News | What's New Online Services Deposit Accounts Loans Rates Business Services Investing Membership Locations Loan Rates Deposit Account Rates VISA Credit Card Rates Disclosures Vehicle Loans Mortgages Home Equity Loans Student Loans Variable Rate Loans Luxury Loans Miscellaneous Loans Calculators Home Equity Loan Rates Printer Friendly Format Members 1st can help with quick, convenient, low-cost financingfor the purchase of new and used automobiles, passenger vans and pickup trucks. All rates are expressed as ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATES. Rates are subject to change without notice. Loan rates as low as those listed beloware effective Thursday, December 29, 2005 Home Equity Loan Up to 80% Equity * Term Loan Amount = $60,000 APR Loan Amount 12 Months 4.74 5.24 24 Months 4.99 5.49 36 Months 4.99 5.49 48 Months 5.74 5.99 60 Months 5.74 5.99 84 Months 6.14 6.24 120 Months 6.14 6.24 180 Months 6.49 6.74 Payment Buster 6.64 6.74 Home Equity Loan Up to 100% Equity * Term APR 12 Months 5.99 24 Months 6.24 36 Months 6.24 48 Months 6.74 60 Months 6.74 84 Months 6.99 120 Months 6.99 Land Loan Up to 80% Equity Term Loan Amount = $60,000 APR Loan Amount 12 Months 4.74 5.24 24 Months 4.99 5.49 36 Months 4.99 5.49 48 Months 5.74 5.99 60 Months 5.74 5.99 84 Months 6.14 6.24 120 Months 6.14 6.24 144 Months 6.49 6.74 Land Loan Up to 90% Equity Term APR 12 Months 5.74 24 Months 5.99 36 Months 5.99 48 Months 6.49 60 Months 6.49 84 Months 6.74 120 Months 6.74 * Home Equity Loan rates are for primary residences only (consult your loanofficer for rental property rates). Your rate my vary from what is listed and will be determined by your individual credit profile and Loan to Value. All rates reflect a .20% reduction for Payroll Deduction /Direct Deposit / Auto Transfer. Savings insured by the National Credit Union Administration Equal Housing Lender Equal Opportunity Lender Fraud & Security Center ©2004 Members 1st Federal Credit Union Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania Internet Terms of Usage Privacy Statement