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real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? 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(7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

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Search for new homes and get cash back | New Home Construction -- BUY A HOME SELL A HOME HOME LOANS NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION ABOUT US MY ACCOUNT Find iNest Featured New Homes by State iNest, a subsidiary of RealEstate.com, specializes in helping buyers of newly constructed homes. Use iNest to find new homes from leading home builders and get 1% cash back following purchase ($2,000 on the purchase of a $200,000 home). Start your new home search by clicking on a state below. Area: Please Choose AZ-Phoenix AZ-Tucson CA-San Diego CA-Stockton CO-Colorado Springs CO-Denver CO-Fort Collins/Loveland DC-Washington D.C. FL-Jacksonville FL-Orlando FL-Sarasota FL-Southeast Florida FL-Southwest Florida FL-Tampa GA-Atlanta GA-Chattanooga IL-Chicago IL-Rockford IL-Southern Illinois IN-Fort Wayne IN-Indianapolis IN-South Bend MA-Boston MD-Baltimore MI-Detroit MI-Grand Rapids MI-Otsego MN-Minneapolis-St.Paul NC-Charlotte NC-Greensboro/Winston-Salem NC-Raleigh-Durham NM-Albuquerque NV-Las Vegas OH-Akron/Canton OH-Cincinnati OH-Cleveland OH-Columbus OH-Dayton OR-Portland PA-Baltimore PA-Philadelphia PA-Pittsburgh SC-Greenville-Spartanburg TN-Chattanooga TN-Jackson TN-Knoxville TN-Memphis TN-Nashville TX-Austin TX-Dallas-Fort Worth TX-Houston TX-Rio Grande Valley TX-San Antonio UT-Salt Lake City VA-Richmond WI-Madison WI-Milwaukee Price Range: Please Choose $100,000 - $150,000 $150,000 - $200,000 $200,000 - $250,000 $250,000 - $300,000 $300,000 - $400,000 $400,000 - $500,000 $500,000 - $600,000 $600,000 - $700,000 $700,000 - $800,000 $800,000 - $900,000 $900,000 - $1 Million $1 Million + Is Your State Not Listed Above? Your best option is to find a REALTOR ® through RealEstate.com and you may receive a gift card worth up to $1,000 or more.* 1. Choose a Real Estate Company 2. Consult a Relocation Director 3. Close with that REALTOR ® *There is no incentive offered for home purchases or sales less than $75,000. Rebates based on 6% commission. Terms and Conditions Please note: iNest is a wholly-owned subsidiary of LendingTree,LLC. Both iNest and LendingTree, LLC. are acting in their capacities as licensed real estate brokers. For more information on iNest's real estate licenses, please visit www.internest.com/xyz/disclosure/index.asp and for more information on LendingTree, LLC's real estate licenses, please visit www.lendingtree.com . Buying a Home | Selling a Home | Homes for Sale | Credit Report & Score | House Prices at Domania New Home Construction | Find a Mover | Find a REALTOR ® | Home Financing | Real Estate Learning Center Customer Service | Publications | For the Media | News Releases | Join Our Real Estate Network | Post Home Listings Privacy | Security | Terms of Use | Jobs | Disclosures and Licenses | Sitemap | Loans | Commercial Real Estate Houses for Sale in: Atlanta | Austin | Boston | Charlotte | Chicago | Dallas | Denver | Houston | Las Vegas | Los Angeles Miami | Minneapolis | New York | Philadelphia | Phoenix | San Antonio | San Diego | San Francisco | Seattle Washington, DC | Real Estate in More Cities LendingTree technology and processes are patented under US Patent Nos. 6,385,594 and 6,611,816. © 1998 - Real Estate.com, a service of LendingTree, LLC. All Rights Reserved.This site is directed at, and made available to, persons in the continental U.S., Alaska and Hawaii only. Conversion to LendingTree, LLC We are pledged to the letter and spirit of U.S. policy for the achievement of equal housing opportunity throughout the Nation. We encourage and support an affirmative advertising and marketing program in which there are no barriers to obtaining housing because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin. REALTOR ® -- A registered collective membership mark that identifies a real estate professional who is a member of the National Association of REALTORS ® and subscribes to its strict Code of Ethics. Not all of the real estate professionals participating in the "Agent's Competing" program are REALTORS ® , which are members of the National Association of REALTORS ® . The Home Depot ® is not affiliated with LendingTree, LLC. The Home Depot ® is a registered trademark of Homer TLC, Inc. RealEstate.com is not sponsored by or affiliated with the parent franchisor companies of any of the participating members of its network. Partner Sites: Citysearch | Expedia | Hotels.com | Ticketmaster.com | Hotwire.com | Entertainment.com | Match.com Home Shopping Network | ReserveAmerica | LendingTree.com | iNest | ServiceMagic | Ask Jeeves | Gift Ideas Mortgage Calculator | Refinance at GetSmart | LendingTree Mortgage | Free Online Credit Report | Home Equity Loans

Land Loan Tools  

Indymac Bank Construction Lending Indymac Bank home   |   about us   |   contact us   |   privacy   |   ID notice   |   security   |   careers    1-800-HCL-LOAN (425-5626)   HCL for Individuals   Main Page   Get To Know Us   Get Started Now!   My Project Application   My Loan Information Loan Products   ·   Construction-to-Permanent Loan   ·   Remodeler Loan   ·   Bridge Loan ·   Lot/Land Loan Tools   ·   Line Item Budget Calculator Find A Builder --   ·   Cost To Build Calculator -- Event Calendar -- Help   ·   FAQs   ·   Glossary Customer Service --   ·   Contact Us Lot/Land Loan Found the perfect location to build your dream home ...and now you need the perfect loan? Our Lot Loan is the right loan if you're looking to purchase a residential lot to build your primary residence or second home. Once you have purchased your land, you will have time to design your new home and choose a contractor. Best of all, Indymac Bank will fund your Construction-to-Permanent Loan once you're ready to build. · Loans to $500,000. -- Frequently Asked Questions Check to view all answers. Q. How do I know where I should build my home? A. Location may be one of the most important factors to consider. Although many people have a geographic location in mind, some are open to alternatives. It's important to consider your lifestyle (and those you'll be living with) as well as the cost. If you're planning a family, schools will be important. If not, you may want to consider other factors such as proximity to work, or accessibility to the beach, the mountains or leisure activities. Q. What is a "finished lot"? A. A "finished lot" refers to a portion of land that already has road access and utilities in place to the lot boundary. Additionally, it has been approved by the city or county as a separate parcel of land on a parcel map. Q. Can I buy a piece of land that is not a finished lot and save some money? A. While it may be possible to purchase an unfinished lot, generally this is not advisable for an individual building their own home. The costs of bringing roads and utilities to the first lot in a new area are usually very high. Typically, the first person to build pays for others who will build later. There are land developers who specialize in preparing lots for building (this may include zoning and/or soils issues, as well as bringing roads and utilities to the site, and creating a building pad). Often, these lots are in a planned community. Q. What do you mean by "planned community"? Aren't all communities planned? A. No, many older communities were not planned; they evolved. Certainly, as a city has grown, plans have taken shape. But in many cases the nucleus of a community was started many years before the community or city planning existed. In many instances, it is this unplanned characteristic that gives a community its charm. A planned community, in contrast, generally offers a specific style and certain amenities at a package price. Depending on the size and location of the community, these amenities may include greenbelts, landscaping, biking trials, swimming pools, even schools and shopping centers. Some amenities, such as the community pool and greenbelts, are paid for through a homeowners' association. Others are paid through taxes or mello roos. Still others are design enhancements intended to encourage potential buyers to purchase in an area or to attract more commercial business. Many of the more costly amenities included in a planned community may not be affordable for a homeowner on an individual basis. However, some of these amenities may not be important to you. After all, priorities, like lifestyle, vary. If you select a home in a planned community, you'll generally have a more structured community where decisions are made jointly rather than by the individual homeowner. These community decisions include individual home design and landscaping. While some homeowners may consider this an acceptable trade-off to ensure an attractive environment, others may consider it an infringement on their rights. It's important that you know how you feel before selecting the type of lot you want. Q. Can tax bases differ within the same community? A. Yes, they can. While some cities already have parks, schools, and streets, newer communities built within the same city may have special assessments that cover the costs to develop or maintain new or existing parks, schools, streets, etc. These assessments may be for a prescribed period of time or may continue indefinitely. A little research goes a long way. Here again, a good real estate agent or title company officer can often provide you with this information. Q. I've found the perfect location, but I'm not ready to build my dream home. Can I obtain financing for the land only? A. Yes, you can obtain a Lot Loan. Typically, this is short-term financing for the purchase of a residential lot suited for future construction. This loan allows you time to select an architect, builder, and design your dream home. IndyMac Bank's Lot Loan program allows you to finance up to 50 acres. And when you're ready to build, we offer a one-time close Construction-to-Permanent Loan. ^ back to top Still have questions? Call toll-free 1-800-HCL-LOAN (425-5626) to speak with a construction loan specialist, or downloada copy of our booklet (pdf) that answers the most frequently asked questions about building your own home. Information Center · Glossary · FAQs -- FAQs · Get To Know Us · Building Your Dream Home Magazine (pdf) · Owner Builder Guide (pdf) Consumer Guide to Construction Financing (pdf) Did You Know A Construction Loan Is A Reimbursement Loan? (pdf) subscribe now -- Get Started Now! Apply online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and get a loan approval in minutes! get started -- e-mail/mail us | 1-800-HCL-LOAN (425-5626) Licensing | Terms of Use | Site Feedback -- Licensing | Terms of Use | Site Feedback Licensing | Terms of Use | Site Feedback -- Licensing | Terms of Use | Site Feedback -- ©2005 IndyMac Bank, F.S.B. Registered trade/service marks are the property of IndyMac Bank, F.S.B. and/or its subsidiaries.

Rental Property...Information Members Area

Gulf Coast Florida Rentals by Owner on the Gulf Coast of Florida Beach Rental Gulf Coast / Florida Rentals is mostly Florida vacation properties. With numerous homes & condos for rent, all by their owners. These vacation home rentals make for perfect getaways, golf vacations... Naples, Destin, Seagrove Beach, Panama City Beach, Pensacola Beach, Sarasota, St Petersburg, Siesta Key, Marco Island, Cape Coral, Bonita Springs... wherever in Florida. Whether you are looking for a FL hot spot condo or relaxed Naples beach rentals, our golf condos all along the Florida / Gulf Coast beaches stretching from Cape San Blas to Perdido Key to Clearwater Beach, to Marco Island, Sanibel Island, Indian Rocks Beach, to the Florida keys... are sure to please! Vacation Rentals Directories Since 1997 Alabama Louisiana Mississippi Texas Florida Users Disclaimer Listing your Rental Property...Information Members Area About Gulf Coast / Florida Vacation Rentals Owners of vacation rental property use this web site to advertise their beach homes, condos, villas, duplexes, tri-plexes, town homes and beachfront homes with apartments. All of these properties are on or somewhere near America's Gulf Coast...from Texas to the Florida Keys. Follow the underlined links through our directories and click on the name of the FL property that interests you. That's how to access the pictures, rates and contact information for that owners property. Regions of the Florida Gulf Coast Panhandle Central South Keys Clickable Florida Maps lead to Rentals Gulf Coast / Florida Vacation Rentals lists golf condo property on Sanibel Island, Seaside, Bonita Beach, Captiva and Naples. Listings are on Marco Island as well as Panama City Beach, Seagrove Beach, Siesta Key, Indian Shores, Cape San Blas, Destin, Seaside, Englewood, Punta Gorda and St. Petersburg. You will find rental condos and homes in Clearwater, Cape Coral, Venice, Ft Myers Beach, Panama City, Sarasota, Pensacola Beach, Punta Gorda Anna Maria Island. Find a rental in Indian Rocks Beach, and rentals in the Florida Keys, Marathon, Destin, Gasparilla Island, Sarasota and Boca Grande, Redington Beach condos. Florida Vacation Rentals Local Pages Alligator Point Fort Walton Beach Panama City Beach Anna Maria Island Gasparilla Island Pensacola Beach Bellaire Beach Grassy Key Perdido Key Beverly Hills Holmes Beach Pine Island Big Pine Key Homosassa Plantation Key Blue Mountain Beach Hudson Port Charlotte Boca Grande Indian Rocks Beach Punta Gorda Bokeelia Indian Shores Ramrod Key Bonita Springs Inlet Beach Redington Beach Bonita Beach Islamorada Rosemary Beach Bradenton Key Colony Beach Rotonda Bradenton Beach Key Largo Sanibel Island Cape Coral Key West Santa Rosa Beach Cape San Blas Largo Sarasota Captiva Layton Seacrest Beach Carrabelle Little Gasparilla Island Seagrove Beach Carillon Beach Long Boat Key Seaside Cape Haze Madeira Beach Shell Point Casey Key Marathon Siesta Key Cedar Key Marco Island St Petersburg Clearwater Matlacha Summerland Key Crystal River Mexico Beach Tampa Destin Naples Tavernier Englewood Navarre Beach Terra Ceia Estero New Port Richey Treasure Island Everglades City North Captiva Island Useppa Island Florida Keys Orlando Venice Beach Fort Myers Osprey Weeki Wachee Fort Myers Beach Palm Harbor Yankeetown You will enjoy visiting Key Largo FL, Anna Maria Island, Key West, Santa Rosa Beach, Seagrove Beach, Indian Rocks Beach, Panama City Beach, Siesta Key, Naples, Pensacola and St Petersburg. Visit Alligator Point, Indian Shores, Fort Walton, Islamorada, Sanibel Island, Siesta, Marco Island, Panama City and Englewood. All Florida rentals are USA; have docks and beachfront locations. In Texas, try Galveston or South Padre Island! Alabama has Gulf Shores, Orange Beach & Dauphin Island for a golf condo. Texas Vacation Rentals Local Pages Bayou Vista New Braunfels Corpus Christi North Padre Island Crystal Beach Port Aransas Galveston San Antonio Gilchrist South Padre Island Houston Surfside Beach Matagorda Alabama Vacation Rentals Local Pages Dauphin Island Gulf Shores North Perdido Beach Orange Beach Property Owners... click here for information on listing your rental property. Are you thinking of renting one of the above vacation properties? See our disclaimer. Links Link Exchange Sign-up form Ad Packages Contact Us Testimonials Property Managers FAQs Members Area Top Florida Gulf Coast Vacation Rentals lists property on Sanibel Island, Seaside, Bonita Beach, Captiva, Naples , Marco Island as well as Panama City Beach, Indian Shores, Cape San Blas, Destin, Seaside and St. Petersburg. You will find condominiums and villas in Clearwater Beach, Cape Coral, Venice, Ft Myers, South Padre Island, Punta Gorda and holiday rentals in the Florida Keys, Marathon, Gasparilla Island, a FL condo rental or 2 in Boca Grande, Key Largo or Indian Shores. You can go to Anna Maria Island, Key West, Santa Rosa Beach, St Petersburg, Pensacola Beach, Alligator Point, Fort Walton, Indian Rocks Beach, Seagrove Beach, Siesta Key, Ft Myers Beach and Englewood. All these condo rentals are in the USA; many are homes and beachfront locations with choice of condos bedrooms. sentosa