Home Equity & Mortgages

Bank One - online banking, home equity & mortgage loans, checking accounts, loan calculators Log In | Find Us | Calculators | Help | Contact Us | Privacy December 29, 2005 About Us Careers Investor Relations Research & Education Log In Login Help Bank One Online CardMemberServices JPMorgan Funds CollegeChoice 529 Bank One Mortgage User ID: Forgot User ID? Password: Forgot Password? User IDs and Passwords are case-sensitive Security at Login Your login is secured using Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) technology. Learn More Enroll Our site is easy to use and gives you FREE access to your accounts. See for yourself. View a Demo . ¡Ahora! Bank One con información en español Personal Personal Checking Debit Cards Home Equity & Mortgages Credit Cards Loans Savings Investments Insurance Certificates of Deposit Online Services Bank One Real Estate Taxes Private Client Services Private Banking Investment Services Specialty Assets Insurance Trust Services Philanthropic Solutions Financial Planning Online Services Business Business Business Complete Business Services Cash Management Certificates of Deposit Checking Credit Cards Workplace Financial Services Insurance Investments Lines, Loans & Leases Savings Commercial Capital Markets Domestic Locations Global Services Industries Investment Services Loans & Leases Treasury Management Affiliated Services Group Banking Real Estate Appraisal Securities Safekeeping Special Offers In The News - U.S. Armed Forces Overseas - Protect Yourself from Identity Theft. Learn More. News Update What could be more convenient than investing where you bank? Find out about our investment services . Market information provided by Pinnacor. Equal Housing Lender Member FDIC Terms of Use | Security © 2005 JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Land Loan by Adam

Understanding the Land Loan How to Make Your Business Card Call for Action No matter how many wonderful services you offer, if your card brands you as unprofessional, you stand to loose potential customers. This article shows you how to make business cards that are not only informative but also effective. Click here for more... Pehrson Web | SheLovesGod | Books | Music | Romance Novels | Work@Home | Quality Cooking Tools | LocateACoach | MarniePehrson.com Gift the Gift of Romance this Christmas with a CleanRomanceClub Gift Certificate! Click here for details. Login - Signup - Contribute - Use Content - FAQ - Search - EzineBuilder - Advertise With Us New Articles - Publication Directory - About - Writers Update - Home - Connect Your Accounts Check Out These Great Articles! 51 Online Marketing Techniques To Improve Your Websites Success 6 Simple Ways to Determine Which Marketing Ideas Are Best for Your Business Accounting Police: Do They Exist? Change Your Life in 21 Days From Entrepreneur to Infopreneur: Make Money Selling Info Products How to Deal with Your Childs Inappropriate Behavior The Accountability Formula How to Promote Your Music To Radio and Get Results How to Sell Ebooks on Amazon Google Adsense: What You Need to Know! How to Make Your Business Card Call for Action Make your New Years Resolutions Evolutionary not Revolutionary The Perfect Home Based Business: Freelance Copywriting Healthy Eating on a Budget Quit Your Day Job: 10 Steps to Venturing Out on Your Own The Accounting Model Accountings Rosetta Stone Too Busy! Top 5 Things You Need to Know if You Are Buying or Selling a Home Turning 50 Want Your Article Here? Flying Solo? Thinking of becoming a Solo-Entrepreneur? Click here for Free resources available to you! Submit Your Articles to Hundreds of Sites ! | Find Ezines to Promote In Search For Ebooks: For Press Release Promotion Visit Our Partners At Upcoming Events BizCoachingClub.com Sneak Peek Business 2006: Essential Technology/Systems/Tools Business 2006: Maximizing Customer Retention Create Lasting Success - Beyond Meeting the Bills Leaders - Moving you forward More Clients Than You Can Handle Moving Your Business Forward - Coaching Group Passive Revenue: Leverage Underutilized Resources Request Reprint Print About Author Email to a Friend Report Problem Related Books Understanding the Land Loan by Adam Smith Send Feedback to Adam Smith More Details about land loan here. Feature Articles How To Generate Massive Free Website Traffic... Finding Your Home Business Niche... How to KNOW if You'll Reach the Goal... Top 10 Tips To Selling Successfully on eBay... A Completely New Way To Get Rich Rapidly... Retirement Worries? Imagine Double Your Inves... Eight Mistakes to Avoid When Naming a New Bus... Are Your Internet Marketing Efforts Escaping ... Click here for more Subscribe for Free 1ChapterFree Business Channel Home Business Home/Family Channel Marketing Channel Personal Development Good News SheLovesGod Bible Study SheLovesGod Inspiration Tech Update ThoughtsAlive BelieversAtWork Writers Ezine Enter email: First name: In a real estate broker business, almost every thing revolves around land. Obviously it is hard to run a business centered around land without knowing where to acquire prime land and how to finance the land. Lets take some time to familiarize ourselves with some of the key terms that drive the real estate broker industry. A good broker business often times will acquire land through land auctions and then finance these acquisitions with a land loan or a land contract . To learn how this all fits together lets suppose you are interested in investing in some real estate and developing your own little broker business to generate some extra income. Before you can really do anything in your business, you must first acquire some real estate. Now you might sift through the local papers and real estate guides looking for that ideal piece that fits all your requirements. This method could take quite some time as it is hard to come by really good deals in this manner. On the other hand, perhaps a friend mentioned in passing how he built his first house on a piece of property he purchased at a land auction and got a great deal on. Your friend may be on to something here. Have you ever thought about checking out a land auction? If you have not been to a land auction now is the time to go check one out in your area. Thanks to the great format of auctions, the land you are bidding on will start at a relatively low bid price and the land auction will proceed just like a normal auction. Often there will not be much competition for land and you will be able to purchase a great piece of land from the land auction. After you have got your piece of property from the land auction you must find a way to finance it. This is where the land loan comes in. A land loan is exactly what it sounds like a loan for a piece of land. The land loan will be secured by the real estate that it pays for and you will be able to get a loan for the amount of the sale price of the real estate property. Your lender will likely dictate some terms as to what can be done with the land to ensure the value of the land remains intact and the land loan balance can be paid off. If you are into rentals then you might consider building a house or two on this property, depending on the size of the property you won in the land auction. Once your land loan is secure and you have built the houses and landscaped the property then your energies must turn to making this acquisition profitable to you. Hopefully you have added value to the land and can sell the property at a profit. This will create a nice little return on the project and allow you to focus your efforts on the next project. On the other hand you might consider exiting the property by selling the land and closing on a land contract with the buyer. A land contract insinuates that you are essentially financing the purchase for the buyer. Thus, when a buyer signs a land contract he is agreeing to submit monthly payments to you directly at the agreed upon terms. In turn you will pocket some of the money and turn the rest over to the bank that issued you the land loan. By using a land contract you can help somebody who has bad credit purchase the land and charge them a premium on that agreement so that you are making money on top of money. That is to say you are making interest on top of the net profit you got with the sale of the property. Adam Smith is an internet marketer for 10X Marketing. You can learn more about the real estate market and depreciation from OneMinuteMillionaire.com Keywords: land loan, land contract About the Author Adam Smith, adam10xmarketing@gmail.com More Details about land loan here.Adam Smith is an client account specialist with http://www.10xMarketing.com - More Visitors. More Buyers. More Revenue. This article has been viewed 43 time(s). Check Out Our Content Channel Categories Career/Business Marnie Pehrson Computers/Tech Beth Sunny Corporate Rhoberta Shaler Current Events Lee Schaeffer Holiday/Parties Kimberly Lainson Home Business Stone Evans Home/Family Mia Cronan Marketing/PR Marnie Pehrson Money Matters Bob Robertson Personal Develop . Leslie Householder Build Ebooks - Ad Rates - Affiliate Login - Links - Services - Restore Login - 1ChapterFree Serious Entrepeneurs Wanted - Financial Freedom - Women's Magazine - Free Email Marketing - Small Business Grant - Make Money At Home IdeaMarketers is a Project of Pehrson Web Group 514 Old Hickory Ln * Ringgold GA 30736 706-866-2295 * Order Line: 800-524-2307 webmaster@ideamarketers.com Web hosting provided by Blu Sky Web Solutions Please Note : IdeaMarketers is a free-forum whereanyone may sign up for a free writer account or publisher account and post. It is always up to the discretion of the visitor to decide about anything mentioned on the service. We do not personally endorse any company, person, product or service listed on our site unless we explicitly say we are endorsing them.

Home Loan Home Loan

Mortgage Refinancing, Loan Refinance Contact | Mortgage Rates | Mortgage Calculators Mortgages Refinancing Debt Consolidation Mortgage Resources Loans FHA Loan VA Loan What Type Of Loan Are You Looking For? Please Select.... VA Home Loan Home Loan VA Home Refinance Home Refinance FHA Home Loan What Is The Approximate Value Of Your Property? Factors to consider before refinancing a mortgage If you are considering refinancing your home, there are several factors you should think about before making your decision. These factors include the interest rate on your current mortgage, the current market interest rate, how long you plan to live in your current home, and whether or not you need money for other things (such as home improvement, a new car loan, or paying off credit cards). Qualify for a Streamline Refinance Today's Mortgage Refinancing Rates If you would like advice about refinancing, you may speak to a refinancing specialist at 800-930-9201 . Things to consider before refinancing: 1) The Interest Rate You Are Paying Consider the interest rate you are now paying before refinancing . Compare it against the current interest rate to see how much you would save by mortgage refinancing. Use our free mortgage calculator to determine your new monthly payments. (Use our Mortgage Calculator ) 2) The Current Interest Rate Check the current interest rate. To get the benefits of a lower rate, you may have to pay fees associated with the loan, unless your lender is doing a no fee loan. Before committing to a refinance , be sure you have discussed the fee options with your loan officer. [Get the Current Mortgage Refinancing Rates ] 3) How Long You Will Live In Your Home The median length of stay in a home is 8.2 years. However, you may have a better idea of how long you will be in your home. If you do not plan on owning your home for much longer, the lower payments associated with the refinancing may not cover the mortgage refinancing fees. If you plan on staying in your home for a long period of time, refinancing could be an excellent way to reduce your monthly payments. Also, if you are planning on moving into a new home while retaining the old home as a rental property, refinancing is a solid plan. You can lower your monthly mortgage payment and in turn, increase your rental income. 4) Consolidation If you have several outstanding bills, you may want to consider refinancing your home and in turn, consolidating and paying off your other debts. If you have equity in your home, you may be able to access that equity through a "cash out" refinance . You could choose to apply that equity to a debt consolidation plan, a new car, or home improvements. For what reasons would it make sense for me to refinance my mortgage? 1. If you are able to get a lower interest rate If you are able to get a lower rate that what you currently have, you can save tens of thousands of dollars over the life of your loan. Also, most lenders don't charge as many fees to refinance a mortgage and depending on how much equity you have in your home you may be able to roll the closing costs into your new loan, still have a lower balance than your original loan, a lower rate, and a lower payment. 2. Change the term of you mortgage Changing the term of your mortgage can help in several ways. First, if you were to refinance your current mortgage from 30 years to 15 years, you will accelerate the rate at which you pay towards principle each month meaning your house will be paid off quicker. Also, you will save an unbelievable amount of money in terms of interest because you would likely be taking 10 to 15 years off the life of your loan. Second, you can also refinance a 15 year mortgage to a 30 year mortgage. It seems like it might not make sense to do this, but if you have an immediate need to free up monthly cash-flow and you don't want to take out a home equity loan, this can work out to your benefit. When you take a 15 year loan and refinance it to 30 years you will have the same balance only the payments can be hundreds of dollars less than the 15 year loan. The only draw back to this is you will pay more in interest over the live of the loan. 3. You need a large amount of cash, now When you do a cash-out refinance you are leveraging the equity in your home in order to receive a lump sum of cash at closing. Many individuals and families use this type of loan if they want to remodel their home, or they have kids that are attending college soon. 4. You know you will be moving soon If you know that you will be moving in 3 to 5 years, you might want to consider refinancing to a 3 or 5 year ARM (adjustable rate mortgage). These loans typically have a much lower rate that a traditional fixed rate loan such as a 30 year fixed, but they do have a fixed rate for the first 3 or 5 years of the loan. This will enable you to benefit from the lower rate, but you won't ever have to worry about the risk of a rate adjustment because you will be selling the home before the fixed-rate period ends. What you should look for in a mortgage company 1. Is the company reputable There are literally thousands of mortgage companies all over the country. It is important that you choose a reputable one. Most reputable companies will be part of the Better Business Bureau or other community watchdog group. Good companies will also have websites that rank well on search engines such as Yahoo and Google. 2. Integrity of their loan officers Many companies in this industry will do what ever they can to get away with charging you as much as they possibly can. Some of the ways they do this is not disclosing all the third party fees involved in a loan such as title insurance, appraisals, pre-paid tax and insurance escrows etc. It is important that you ask the loan officer you're speaking with about third party fees. If you don't they may not tell you and give you a good faith estimate that sounds fair, but at closing you'll find out that you have to pay a couple of thousand dollars more in fees you were unaware of. A good loan officer at a reputable company should have no problem disclosing all fees that pertain to your loan and should also make sure you understand what the fees are for. Divorce and Refinancing If you are divorced, refinancing your home can make things easier in regards to what happens to mortgage payments when the home is given to one of the parties. If you refinance the house, you can have your ex-spouse's name removed from the deed. Whoever gets the home will now be the sole owner and will be solely responsible for the payment. If you don't have one of the names taken off the deed, the person who is responsible for making the payments might fall behind and will effect the credit of the person's whose name is still on the deed even if they don't have the house. Refinancing Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs) An adjustable rate mortgage is just that. After the fixed-rate period of your loan, typically 3 or 5 years, the rate will adjust with the market. If rates remain low, no problems arise. On the other hand, rates can go up. Sometimes this can cause a mortgage payment to almost double. Many people that have an ARM are not financially ready for a large increase in their house payment. You can do several things to hedge the risk of a rate increase. First, you can refinance your loan into a fixed-rate loan before the end of the fixed period of your ARM. You will likely see a payment increase, but it will be a one time increase. If you keep the ARM, your payment might keep increasing year after year. Anther thing you can do is refinance into another ARM and have a fixed-rate for another 3 to 5 years. Just realize that you will likely have to refinance every 3 to 5 years. The same principles apply to home equity lines of credit (HELOCs) Your home is not just a home - it is a financial tool You can do many things with your home other than just live in it. You can use the value in your home for fiscal gain. First off, you can use the equity in your home to pay off debt at a much lower rate. For instance, say you're paying $1,500 a month on $30,000 of debt. If you have the equity, you can do a cash-out refinance and pay off the debt and your mortgage payment might only go up $300. This gives you an additional $1,200 in monthly cash flow. For this to be really effective you need to realize that you can't get into that much debt again because you might not have the equity to bail you out again. Another thing you can do is take all the equity out of your home and invest it. You may be able to make more money on the investment than you pay out in interest over the life of the new loan. It is important to know that if you choose to take cash out of your home and invest it, you should seek the advice of a certified financial planner. Not many people take advantage of this because it can be risky, but it is an option. If you are considering refinancing , also remember that there are a variety of different mortgages. If you plan on living in your home for a long period of time, you may want to consider the traditional fixed-rate 15- or 30-year loan. Another option is to choose an adjustable rate mortgage and consider refinancing again in a few years. By refinancing , you can choose the perfect mortgage for your needs, which may have changed since you first bought your home. A mortgage broker can be a useful tool to help find the most appropriate mortgage for your refinancing. Info on an FHA STREAMLINE REFINANCE You may also call a specialist at 800-930-9201 to get additional advice about what factors you should consider when deciding whether or not to refinance. The specialist can also show you what mortgage brokers and lenders are the best to deal with. If you have served in the Armed Forces, you can qualify for a VA Loan . A Debt Consolidation Loan may save you hundreds of dollars per month. If you have questions or would like help with your mortgage, you can call us at 800-930-9201 . "Nathan, I wanted you to know that everything went very well at our closing. It was quite pleasant. Thank you for everything." -Vicki Ficklen Mcdonough, GA More Testimonials Equal Opportunity Lender License Information We can help you find the lender (mortgage bank) that can get you the best deal for your financial situation (including setting you up with the best financing rates and loan term). MRC does not originate loans in MA, NJ, NY, ND, PA, VT, NV, WV, or DC. If you are getting a mortgage in one of these states, we will help you by directing your information to a lender in your state. Get additional information about a VA Loan , Home Loan , or 1031 Exchange : Privacy Policy .

Florida Real Estate

Anchor Vacation Properties, Inc. & Anchor Realty & Mortgage Co. Purveyors of Fine Homes and Estates Real Estate Sales Area Information Vacation Rentals Anchor Realty and Mortgage Co. is a full service real estate brokerage firm with 11 offices in the Forgotten Coast of the Florida Panhandle. Our 90+ professional Realtors have a superb track-record in assisting clients in their search for investment properties, beach front, and/or water front real estate. To best serve you, we have two offices in Apalachicola and one office in each of the following markets: Carrabelle, St. George Island, St. Joe Beach, Gramercy Plantation in Eastpoint, Cape San Blas, Simmons Bayou, Mexico Beach, Tallahassee and Lynn Haven near Panama City Beach. Our professional Realtors specialize in platted subdivisions (new and re-sales), vacant land, historic homes, beach homes, town homes, condominiums and commercial property. Just stop by and meet with a REALTOR® or view our website or simply call us for more information. Telephone Directory Anchor Vacation Properties, Inc. offers approximately 150 beach rental homes and townhomes in St. George Island, the St. George Plantation, Apalachicola and Carrabelle, Florida available by the night, by the week or by the month. Guests may also choose the convenience of our hotel, The St. George Inn. Property locations are: beach front, beach view, bay front, river front and interior. Some rentals feature: swimming pools, elevators and docks. Some of our homes and cottages are pet friendly. The St. George Inn on St. George Island offers rooms and suites from $59 to $169 per night. For more information, to request a free brochure, to book your next family vacation, to schedule a fabulous romantic getaway, or to plan your next fishing trip, click the above Rental link or call 1.800.824.0416 or 1.850.927.2625 Site Map

real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? Comments: XML Atom RSS 2.0 RSS 1.0 Sources Eurof Felix Jame Michelle Mike Sage7 Stefan Sterling &c. Disclaimer Archive 12/05 11/05 10/05 09/05 08/05 07/05 06/05 05/05 04/05 03/05 02/05 01/05 12/04 11/04 10/04 09/04 08/04 07/04 06/04 05/04 04/04 03/04 02/04 01/04 12/03 11/03 10/03 09/03 Old site Recent posts 08/12: Not man enough (1) 08/12: Fare's fair (0) 07/12: Briddishisms (5) 06/12: The Trial of Saddam (5) 05/12: Leg deficiencies (4) 01/12: New York real-estate prices explained (37) 30/11: Bad vibe (22) 30/11: Thick-headed bouncers (0) 29/11: Argentina's sinister move (2) 28/11: Bedbugs and the city (8) 27/11: I've got a fast card (1) 22/11: Pedestrianize Broadway! (5) 19/11: Century 21 the next casualty at Ground Zero? (23) 19/11: Johnny Depp - sunshine traitor (4) 18/11: Gawker F***** by Yahoo! (7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks