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real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? 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(7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

Land for Sale by

Land for sale in The Shenandoah Valley - Shenandoah Connection Land forsale in The Shenandoah Valley GeneTaylor's Photography of The Shenandoah Valley more info ShenandoahValley's Best Real Estate Agents Finding #1 Rated Real Estate Agents inShenandoah Valley of VA MAKE MONEY ON RURAL LAND by BK Haynes Editorial Reviews About the Author B.K. Haynes is a real estate broker, developer, publisher, educator, and author with more than forty years experience in the field of country properties. Haynes has sold, developed, and brokered an estimated 300 square miles of land over a four-state region -- a land area the size of the Shenandoah National Park. He lives on an historic 250 acre cattle farm with airstrip in Virginia's fabled Shenandoah Valley. He is also the author of the best selling book, HOW YOU CAN GROW RICH THROUGH RURAL LAND - Starting from Scratch. Book Description Comprehensive real estate manual on buying and selling country properties. ORDER HERE B.K. HAYNES LAND BROKERS Nearby land bargains since 1966 in Shenandoah Valley, Virginia's Piedmont, Blue Ridge, and W.VA. Highlands LOOKING FOR LAND THEN CLICK HERE Haynes Building, 501 South Royal Ave., Front Royal, VA 22630 Call 540-635-3169 E-mail: bkhaynes@shentel.net Fax 540-635-9355 http://www.bkhaynes.com/land.html Shenandoah Valley's Best Real Estate Agents Finding #1 Rated Real Estate Agents in Shenandoah Valley of VA Here is our growing list of the top real estate agents in the Shenandoah Valley of VA Steve Sober, e-PRO, ABR ERA Beasley Realty 146 S. Main Street Woodstock, VA. 22664 Please call me direct:: (540) 975-5678 www.SteveSober.com Pam Napier Realtor COUNTRYWIDE REAL ESTATE SERVICES Mt Jackson and New Market VA Real Estate Agent West Virginia and Winchester Virginia Real Estate Agent Faith Horan Real Estate Sales Consultant with: Keller Real Estate of Winchester Virginia 611 W. Jubal Early Drive # A Each Office Independently Owned & Operated Dee Archambault Real Estate Consultant from Winchester VA Dee is part of the Keller Williams Realty Group One of the most complex and important financial events in peoples’ lives is the purchase or sale of your home... Have Dee Archambault help you make the right choices for your home or investment property. 611 West Jubal Drive Suite A Winchester Virginia 22601 Cell phone - 540-247-5748 - Office 540-869-9556 email deearch@mris.com - Web Page Winchester Virginia Real Estate Agents Winchester/Frederick County real estate Shenandoah Valley Web Real Estate Guide If you are looking for Real Estate in Winchester VA have Roger Lamborne work for you! Roger Lamborne " At Your Service " Realtor, Broker, ABR, CHS, ALC of Winchester Virginia www.lamborne.com , email: web@lamborne.com 800-820-8562, 540-665-9469, Fax 540-535-1041 OFFICE HOURS: Monday-Friday 9 am to 5:30 PM, Saturday's By Appointment. Leon K. McCray Commercial Real Estate, Land Development & Business Sales Specialist Coldwell Banker Commercial Premier Properties 158 Front Royal Pike, Suite 305 Winchester, VA 22602 540-667-7071 (Business) 540-335-1528 (Cell) 877-667-7071 (Toll Free) 540-667-9796 (Fax) 540-459-4222 (Fax) Woodstock info@shenandoahcommercialrealestate.com www.shenandoahcommercialrealestate.com Land for Sale by Owner in Winchester VA Woods at Magic Mountain 5 acre wooded lots with approved well and septic, underground utilities, reasonable restrictions, located only 3 miles from Winchester Hospital offering privacy and convenience. Call Owner for more details at 540-877-1747 Shenandoah Valley Real Estate Agents Shenandoah Valley Web Real Estate Guide The Most Comprehensive Estate Land for Sale Agent Page for The Shenandoah Valley of Virginia Augusta Springs -Basye -Bergton - Bridgewater - Broadway - Brownsburg - Churchville - Craigsville - Criders - Crimora - Dayton - Deerfield - Edinburg - Elkton -Fairfield - Fishers Hill - Fishersville - Fort Defiance - Fort Valley - Fulks Run - Glasgow - Goshen - Greenville - Grottoes - Harrisonburg - Hinton - Keezletown - Lacey Spring - Lebanon Church - Lexington - Linville - Luray - Lyndhurst - Maurertown - McGaheysville - Middlebrook - Mint Spring - Mount Crawford - Mount Jackson - Mount Sidney - Mount Solon - Natural Bridge - Natural Bridge Station - New Hope - New Market - Orkney Springs - Penn Laird - Pleasant Valley - Port Republic - Quicksburg - Raphine - Rileyville - Rockbridge Baths -Shenandoah - Singers Glen - Spottswood - Stanley - Staunton - Steeles Tavern - Strasburg - Stuarts Draft - Swoope - Timberville - Toms Brook - Verona - Vesuvius - Waynesboro - West Augusta - Weyers Cave - Winchester - Woodstock Virginia - West Virginia Real Estate - Lexington Va Real Estate Country Properties in Virginia and West Virginia For Sale By Owner Shenandoah Valley Real Estate West Virginia Real Estate - Lexington VA Real Estate Roanoke Virginia Realtors, Roanoke VA Real Estate Services Virginia Real Estate Relocation Connection Real Estate Relocation and Reference Connection Country Properties in Virginia and West Virginia For Sale By Owner Shenandoah Valley Real Estate HOUSES FOR SALE BY OWNERS FOR SHENANDOAH VALLEY AND WEST VIRGINIA FSBO * Homes For Sale By Owner West VA * Land for Sale West Virginia West Virginia Real Estate Shenandoah Valley Real Estate Guide Real estate sales rentals, homes, farms, land, cabins, cottages, lots, residential and commercial country properities in Virginia North Carolina Real Estate Carolina Mountains Real Estate - Pinehurst Real Estate Tryon NC Properties - DC Condos Tryon NC Real Estate, Columbus Real Estate, Polk County Real Estate Long Island Real Estate Long Island Real Estate Relocation Directory Shenandoah Valley's online guide to small business, arts, non-profits, and local events in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. The Shenandoah Connection Small Business - Arts - Tourism - Advertising by ShenandoahConnection.com Online Advertising - Website Promotion Search Engine Positioning - Business Networking Call - 540-984-8190 We Drive Traffic to your Website.... T he mission of ShenandoahConnection.com is to create opportunities for both the small business and the arts community of the Shenandoah Valley and beyond. Our Website will increase both visibility and profitability for all our members. Photo by Gene Taylor Get Connected with ShenandoahConnection.com Arts & Entertainment - Real Estate - Jobs Hotels & Inns - Recreation - Fine Dining Business Opportunities - Shenandoah Weddings Health Services - Shenandoah Valley Online News Advertise your Shenandoah Valley Business * FREE Online Classifieds and Events Board * We are a full service website promotion and marketing firm located in The Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Our innovative and proven search engine optimization techniques have ranked more web pages in more top positions than anyone in the business. Whether it's web site promotion, development, design or consulting, we can help get you the results you expect. About us In addition to providing easy access to web pages and services in The Shenandoah Valley, Google has set up this special feature to help you find exactly what you're looking for with a click of the mouse. List Your Business with us! How Will People Find Your Website? On the First Page of Google! more info Advertising Promotional Products Advertise Shenandoah Valley Business Web Promotion Radio Advertising Promotional Products Printed Tee Shirts Mt Jackson VA Shops Accommodations Bed and Breakfasts Inn's Bed & Breakfasts Cabin Rentals Shenandoah Woodstock VA Inn at Narrow Passage The Fuller House Inn Winchester VA B&B Inns Woodstock Virginia House Rentals Shenandoah Valley Vacation Rentals Shenandoah Cabins Shenandoah Hotels Shenandoah Valley Motels Auctions Add your Auction on our posting board .. .. Antiques Antiques Shops - Dealers .... Shenandoah Valley Fine Arts Shenandoah Photography The Art Group VECCA 7 East Art Studio Valley Educational Center Creative Arts - Woodstock VA Cultural Art Centers Shenandoah Arts Council Attorneys BRADLEY G. 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Get Connected with ShenandoahConnection.com We are a full service website promotion and marketing firm located in The Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Our innovative and proven search engine optimization techniques have ranked more web pages in more top positions than anyone in the business. Whether it's web site promotion, development, design or consulting, we can help get you the results you expect. By getting connected to our growing network you will have the cutting edge against the competition. What can the Shenandoah Connection do for you? Its simple. When someone logs onto the internet to find a service or product located in the greater Shenandoah Valley what do they do?…, They go to Google.com or some other search engine, right? Shenandoah Connection has the expertise to set up your business and/or website so that your business comes up at the top page of the list. This means that the majority of internet searches for your service will be directed straight to YOUR business. Well, the folks at Shenandoah Connection don’t stop there. We are busy establishing relationships with other business networks in other parts of the Valley and beyond. Internet searchers not only are directed to your website, but now have co-operative “links” to other kinds of businesses in different regions. This means that potential customers are also being directed to your business. So, no matter whether you sell tires or fine art, Shenandoah Connection will get you a larger piece of the “internet pie”, and that means greater marketing exposure to grow your business bigger, faster. Just give us a call… its that simple. . Call 540-984-8190 * Shenandoah Valley Travel Question & Answer Posting Board * Call Shenandoah Connection at 540-984-8190 Shenandoah Valley Real Estate Guide Augusta Springs -Basye -Bergton - Bridgewater - Broadway - Brownsburg - Churchville - Craigsville - Criders - Crimora - Dayton - Deerfield - Edinburg - Elkton -Fairfield - Fishers Hill - Fishersville - Fort Defiance - Fort Valley - Fulks Run - Glasgow - Goshen - Greenville - Grottoes - Harrisonburg - Hinton - Keezletown - Lacey Spring - Lebanon Church - Lexington - Linville - Luray - Lyndhurst - Maurertown - McGaheysville - Middlebrook - Mint Spring - Mount Crawford - Mount Jackson - Mount Sidney - Mount Solon - Natural Bridge - Natural Bridge Station - New Hope - New Market - Orkney Springs - Penn Laird - Pleasant Valley - Port Republic - Quicksburg - Raphine - Rileyville - Rockbridge Baths -Shenandoah - Singers Glen - Spottswood - Stanley - Staunton - Steeles Tavern - Strasburg - Stuarts Draft - Swoope - Timberville - Toms Brook - Verona - Vesuvius - Waynesboro - West Augusta - Weyers Cave - Winchester - Woodstock Virginia Lexington VA Real Estate Roanoke Virginia Realtors, Roanoke VA Real Estate Services Virginia Real Estate Relocation Connection Real Estate Relocation and Reference Connection Country Properties in Virginia and West Virginia For Sale By Owner Shenandoah Valley Real Estate HOUSES FOR SALE BY OWNERS FOR SHENANDOAH VALLEY AND WEST VIRGINIA FSBO * Homes For Sale By Owner West VA * Land for Sale West Virginia West Virginia Real Estate Shenandoah Valley Real Estate Guide Real estate sales rentals, homes, farms, land, cabins, cottages, lots, residential and commercial country properities in Virginia North Carolina Real Estate Carolina Mountains Real Estate - Pinehurst Real Estate Cathryn Lennon Tryon NC Properties - DC Condos Tryon NC Real Estate, Columbus Real Estate, Polk County Real Estate Long Island Real Estate for Sale by Owners Country Properties in Virginia and West Virginia For Sale By Owner Shenandoah Valley Real Estate North Carolina Real Estate Carolina Mountains Real Estate - Pinehurst Real Estate Cathryn Lennon Tryon NC Properties - DC Condos Tryon NC Real Estate, Columbus Real Estate, Polk County Real Estate Shenandoah Valley Real Estate Guide HOUSES FOR SALE BY OWNERS FOR SHENANDOAH VALLEY AND WEST VIRGINIA FSBO * Homes For Sale By Owner West VA * Land for Sale West Virginia Long Island Real Estate For Sale by Owner Find out how you can sell your own house here Long Island Real Estate Relocation Directory Long Island Real Estate Relocation Directory Long Island Real Estate Boutique Real Estate Services Long Island - Long Island Relocation Guide HERE IS WHAT SOME OF OUR SPONSORS ARE SAYING! " The Shenandoah Connections helped us with our first Savor the Valley Fall Festival by putting us in touch with potential vendors that we otherwise would not have known about. Mark Barreres provided musical entertainment for that same event and it was terrific! I look forward to working with Shenandoah Connections again !!" - Amy Proctor from Shenandoah Caverns & American Celebration "I recently moved to the Shenandoah Valley form Arizona. Through shenandoahconnection.com I was able to locate and contact other musicians with whom I am now working. Without this resource it would have been impossible to do this in a short time frame (less than a year). Also, the connection has also been an important resource for locating and referring persons interested in obtaining basic and advanced instruction in guitar, bass guitar, theory, improvisation, and related subjects. Many thanks to Mark Barreres for this wonderful resource." - Dave Lewis Musician "I have had several on-line ventures. ShenandoahConnection.com has helped me get found on the web and in countless other ways. Thanks Mark!" Jeanne Russell " FYI-Our Business has improved & we are finally being found on search engines, Since working with Shenandoah connection & Mark. No other advertising has been so effective for us - ever. Mark has also been greatly helpful with our web site and is always available for suggestions & help. The ability to be able to link with others in the Valley & our specific area is a great concept & asset. I hope more folks will join the "Connection"! Fuller House Inn in Winchester - Debra " ShenandoahConnection.com has been a real direct benefit to my website. Visitors to ShenandoahConnection.com who then link to www.stevesober.com make Marks websites the third or fourth largest provider of distinct visitors to my website every week. This kind of exposure is very hard to find. Thank You Mark! " - Steve Sober Valley Ballooning of Woodstock VA "Dear Mark, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you and your staff for all the hard work and assistance with the website. You were certainly good to your word in getting our site listed on the front page of Google. And the best part is, it only took a couple of days! My business has already shown a marked increase, and I look forward to working with you in the coming years. Thanks again!" - Don "A special thanks for all your help goes out to ShenandoahConnection from your business partners" - Roanoke Business Networking . Roanoke Biz2Biz is a response to the needs of Roanoke area companies for a cost effective, online hub to connect businesses to other businesses. It is matchless as a 24/7 business revenue generator. Roanoke Biz2Biz utilizes a variety of interactive tools, expertise in Search Engine Marketing and Business-to-Business Marketing to generate new sales leads. If we have helped your business let people know about it here The Shenandoah Connection Group is looking to work with the new and existing small business, musicians, artists, and advertising groups in The Shenandoah Valley and beyond. It's all networking! Call Mark Barreres at 540-984-8190 The Shenandoah Connection Group Business and Arts Networking The website that is helping to change the way people think about the Internet in The Shenandoah Valley and beyond. It's all about networking ... Long Island Business Network Pennsylvania Arts Small Business Network Western North Carolina Mountains Small Business Arts Networking Shenandoah Valley Musicians Network Small Business and Arts Networking Shenandoah Valley Weddings Shenandoah Valleys Best Kansas City Connection Americana Rhythm Magazine American Sports Collectibles Out of Africa Getting a professional website geared toward your target audience is what the The ShenandoahConnection can do for you! Our desire it to help businesses and individual clients establish or maintain a professional presence on the World Wide Web. Website Promotion by Mark Barreres How Will People Find Your Website? On the First Page of Google! more info If you have any ideas, comments, suggestions or would like to work on a project with us please do not hesitate to call 540-984-8190 or email: markb@shentel.net Our Objective is to foster and encourage creative partnerships between business and the arts... Networking Small Business and The Arts We are looking to network with Art Groups, Musicians, Cultural Art Centers and businesses worldwide. music@shentel.net Americana Rhythm Magazine Art Group Alice in Wonderland Art Atlanta Georgia Wedding Photography 1st Friday Celebration Barrelhouse Bonni Blue Ridge Parkway Skyline Drive Bluegrass Bucky Clark Blues Musicians Network Caribbean Artists Carolina Arts Music Chappalino's Chicago Musicians C'ville Music Cultural Art Centers Chords & Lyrics Corporate Art by Commission Custom Built Guitars Dahlonega Georgia Daytona Musicians Shenandoah Dance Lessons Ed MCcurdy Edinburg VA Concerts Elizabeth City NC Fredericksburg VA Fairfax VA Musicians Florida Small Business and Arts Network Gift Shop Guitar Lessons Guestbook Guitar Builders Vintage Guitars Handmade Guitars Guitar Repairs Guitars Shenandoah Valley House Concerts USA Harrisonburg Musicians Janusz B. 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Buy Home

Homes for Sale - HUD HUD News Newsroom Priorities About HUD Homes Buying Owning Selling Renting Homeless Home improvements HUD homes Fair housing FHA refunds Foreclosure Consumer info Communities About communities Volunteering Organizing Economic development Working with HUD Grants Programs Contracts Work online HUD jobs Complaints Resources Library Handbooks/ forms Common questions Tools Webcasts Mailing lists Contact us Help Homes for Sale Information by State Esta página en español Print version Email this to a friend Helpful Tools Maps/Directions Neighborhoods Additional Information How to Buy a HUD Home Housing Counseling Homebuyers Kit HUD-Approved Lenders HUD-Approved Condos Lead Hazard Control Fair Housing Information Settlement Costs and Helpful Information Officer Next Door Teacher Next Door Revitalization Areas $1 Homes to Local Governments About Multifamily Property Sales Consumer Alert Several federal agencies have properties to sell. In fact, HUD sells both single family homes and multifamily properties. Check them out - one might be just what you're looking for! Single Family Homes for Sale From HUD From the Department of Veterans Affairs From Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation From General Services Administration From Internal Revenue Service From Small Business Administration From US Army Corps of Engineers From Customs From the U.S. Marshals Service From the Department of Agriculture Rural Development Related Links From Fannie Mae From Freddie Mac From Realtor.com Multifamily Properties From HUD From Fannie Mae General Services Administration Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Content updated March 17, 2005 Back to Top FOIA Privacy Web Policies and Important Links Home U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 451 7th Street S.W., Washington, DC 20410 Telephone: (202) 708-1112 TTY: (202) 708-1455 Find the address of a HUD office near you

Sell House

House prices - setting the value Geta Free Home Valuation Now Setting the Price on Your Home Along with location and condition, the pricing of a house is a major component of the reasonswhy a house will--or will not--sell quickly. Although the pricing should not be dealt with lightly, some sellershave a tendency to put too much emphasis on the price and not enough on the condition, ending up with a house thatis overpriced for its current condition and the overall market. Even if you find an unaware buyer that appearswilling to pay the high price, when the buyer applies for a mortgage, the chances are good that the lender's appraisalwill force the price back down to market value. It's important to get it right the first time Care and time should be taken when establishing the original listingprice for several reasons: 1) If the houseis overpriced, it won't sell. If it doesn't sell and sits on the market the listing quickly becomes stale. 2) If you overpricethe house with the intention of reducing the price later just to "see what the market will bear", whenthe price of the house is lowered, it signals to buyers that it was (and still may be) overpriced. 3) If the houseis underpriced, it most likely will sell quickly--to the detriment of your net proceeds. Some factors that affect the price of a home 1) Location: Youcan't get away from this one. If your house is located in a desirable area that is in demand, you will be ableto get a higher price than you can for the same house in a less desirable area. 2) Condition: A house that has been better maintained and shows better will always sell for more than one that has had deferred(neglected) maintenance and needs work. 3 ) Desirable amenities: If a house has amenities that are currently popular in the marketplace, it will bring a higher price. Methods of setting the price CMA (Comparable Market Analysis) :A comparison of similar properties in the same general area that compares actual sold prices. A Real Estate Agentcan generate a CMA, or in many cases you can do it on your own. HomePrice.net gathers data on properties in the majority of U.S. states. Some of the informationyou'll see includes address, sale date, price and square footage for up to 30 comparable properties. Click herefor more information . HomeGain: If you're thinkingabout selling your home in the next 12 months, this FREE service is designed to help you get an estimate of yourhome's value. Knowing how much your home can be worth is one of the first steps in beginning to market the property. Clickhere for more information Electronic Appraiser Enter your property address and receive a home sales valuation report. Known to the Real Estate Appraisal industryas a Automated Valuation Model (AVM). Traditional Appraisal: A estimated valuation is placed specifically on your house by a professionalappraiser. An appraisal will take into account location, condition and sale prices of comparable properties inthe neighborhood. RELATED TOPICS CMA (Comparable Market Analysis) Appraisals Evaluation and Feedback HOME | Checklist | To-Do Lists | Set a Value | By Owner | With an Agent | Preparation | Showtime | Research | More Links