Real Estate Investment Trusts

Investment Services Real Estate Instruments in the Yahoo! Directory Search: the Web | the Directory | this category Investment Services > Real Estate Instruments Email this page Suggest a Site Advanced Search Directory > Business and Economy > Shopping and Services > Financial Services > Investment Services > Real Estate Instruments CATEGORIES Real Estate Investment Trusts (110) SPONSOR LISTINGS ( What's this? ) Matrix Capital Partners - private equity firm focused on multi-family real estate investments and the preservation of affordable housing communities. SITE LISTINGS By Popularity | Alphabetical ( What's This? ) Sites 1 - 31 of 31 RealEstateCourseReviews.com - read and write reviews of the most popular real estate investing courses. Also offers products, articles, and links related to real estate investment. Oarlock Investment Services, Inc. - specializes in investment real estate for self-directed retirement accounts. Lend Lease Corporation Limited Lend Lease Real Estate Investments - diversified investment manager offering real estate and mortgage products. George Smith Partners, Inc. - commercial mortgage brokerage firm specializing in financing acquisition, construction, and mezzanine loans in addition to joint venture equity and highly leveraged participating debt. Cashflow Property Network - offers members insight on where to invest, what types of real estate to invest in, and what to expect as a real estate investor. Intercontinental - features investment, development, and asset management. Legacy Partners - management and investment company with properties in the western states. The J.E. Robert Company - commercial mortgage investment and asset management firm with offices in the U.S. and France. Charter Municipal Mortgage Acceptance Company (AMEX: CHC ) - invests in tax-exempt bonds, the proceeds of which are used by borrowers to finance and refinance the development and ownership of multifamily housing nationwide. Bancroft Capital - real estate investment and consulting company specializing in the western United States. L & B Group - provides real estate investment advisory and management services to institutional investors. LNR Property Corporation - invests primarily in real estate properties, loans, and securities. New Boston Fund, Inc. - offers information on activities and investment team. Capital Commercial Investments (CCI) - real estate investment company. Maverick Consulting Group - consulting for residential, office and retail property investment internationally. RealtiCorp - real estate trading company that does research based land investing to identify, acquire, and sell land. Krupp Funds Group American Spectrum (AMEX: AQQ ) - diversified real estate investment and management company. Sagam - specializing in investments and trading in Mortgage Backed Obligations an the Dynamic Currency Unit (DCU). RealNet USA - provides a wholesale method of acquiring, financing, insuring, and managing real estate investments. Phoenix Capital - specializing in acquiring income-generating real estate assets by purchasing property units from individuals involved in limited partnerships or syndications Infinity Commercial Real Estate Group - specializing in 1031 Tax Deferred Exchanges, and focusing on income producing properties such as apartment complexes, office buildings, and retail centers. Asia Pacific Capital - acquisitions include office, hotel, retail and residential properties. Institutional Real Estate Advisors - investment options for ERISA multi-employer plans, corporate plans, and related investment managers. TDM Properties - properties in Australia, New Zealand, and the South Pacific. Buy A House.com - offering real estate investment services assisting people in creating real estate wealth. Gravitas Holdings - financial structuring engine at the heart of a group of companies that focuses on property acquisitions, procurement, sales, and consultancy services. Asset Marketing, Inc. - real estate holding offers investment, marketing, development, and management services. Property-Invesmtent.com - provides clients with professional advice regarding foreign property investments. Matrix Capital Partners [SPONSOR] - private equity firm focused on multi-family real estate investments and the preservation of affordable housing communities. Investment Services > Real Estate Instruments Email this page Suggest a Site Advanced Search Directory > Business and Economy > Shopping and Services > Financial Services > Investment Services > Real Estate Instruments Search: the Web | the Directory | this category

real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? 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(7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

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NOAA Home Page Thu December 29 2005 Home Contacts Media Disclaimer Search People Locator Home Page Menu Air Quality Aviation Charts Climate Coasts Contacts Disclaimer Diving Drought Fire Weather Fisheries Floods Hurricanes Jobs Lightning Meet the Administrator Navigation Ocean NOAA Leadership Past Weather Podcast Privacy Policy Question of the Month Research RSS Satellites Search this site Site Map Solar and Space Storm Watch Tornadoes Tsunamis Turtles Volcanoes Weather Weather Data Whales Site Map (includes pull-down menu text) NOAA RSS Podcasts Taking the Pulse of the Planet Your Local Forecast by City, State (not ZIP code) STORM WATCH Current Watches/Warnings Graphical Weather Maps and Other Weather Information Image of the Day • Meet the NOAA Administrator • NOAA Administrator's Speeches • NOAA Leadership • About NOAA • NOAA Strategic Planning • Annual Guidance Memo • FOIA • NOAA History • NOAA Organization Chart • Information Quality • Privacy Policy • Department of Commerce Emergency Information for NOAA Employees • Contracting • Employment • Diversity • Grants • NOAA National Weather Service • NOAA Satellites and Information • NOAA Fisheries • NOAA Ocean Service • NOAA Research • NOAA Marine & Aviation Operations • CIO/HPCC • Education Resources • Education and Sustainable Development • NOAA Corporate Services • General Counsel • Program Planning and Integration • IT Security • Legislative Affairs • NOAA Library • NOAA in Your State • Science Advisory Board • Employee Worklife Center • Hydrographic Services Review Panel • Media Contacts • News Releases • NOAA Background Info • Public Affairs • External Affairs • Story Ideas for Reporters NOAA TEACHER AT SEA PROGRAM LAUNCHES NEW WEB SITE NOAA’s Teacher at Sea program launched a new Web site, better enabling teachers from kindergarten through college to find and apply for opportunities to get first-hand research experience aboard NOAA hydrographic, oceanographic and fisheries research vessels. 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land loan? Typically, it

How We Work: Frequently Asked Questions Overview Agros Development Process Organizational Foundations Where We Work Our Impact People and Progress Sustainability FAQs Overview Organizational Profile Vision and Mission History and Future News Room Board of Directors Careers Contact Us Overview Give Online How to Get Involved Volunteer Overview Service Team Experiences Donor Stories Noemí Fund Central America in Transition Recommended Reading Frequently Asked Questions Background Information Why is land ownership important to the rural poor? Land is a precious asset around the world. It is a primary source of income, security and stability. Families who have the opportunity to own their own parcel of land can farm it to ensure a stable income for their families and preserve it for their children. They will invest in their land, improving the soil while conserving the environment. Through land ownership, rural poor families acquire a viable way of supporting themselves and overcoming their poverty while simultaneously creating a sustainable community. However, for most rural poor families owning land is an unattainable dream. They don't have access to the cash or credit they need to buy land. Their inability to purchase land guarantees many poor people in third-world countries a life of desperate poverty, working for low wages as farmhands or migrant laborers. Rural poor families become trapped in a cycle of poverty. They are left unable to purchase their own land, paying exorbitant rents for basic survival on poor quality land, and working for desperately low wages as farmhands and migrant laborers. Agros helps families in Central America purchase their own land. In doing so, we help rural poor families create viable, healthy, and sustainable communities today, and for generations to come. How Agros Helps Does Agros give families free land, or do they work to purchase their own land? Agros offers rural poor families a hand-up, not a handout. We help families purchase land through low-interest loans. Loan payments fund the purchase of land for new Agros communities. Agros owns the land and provides each family in the new community with a promissory note. The land title is held by Agros until each family repays the cost of their parcel of land. How long does it typically take families to pay off their land loan? Typically, it takes a family seven to 10 years to pay for their land. Once the loan is repaid, the land title is written in the name of both husband and wife, or the name of the one parent in a single parent family. There is a two-year grace period is allowed. The title is then passed on to the family in a land title transfer ceremony. This is an important and joyous event in the community. Is the land legally available? Establishing a legally secure title to the land is an important element of Agros' work. Before land is even considered for purchase, it must be legally available and clear of competing claims. This contributes to the long-range security of the families. What happens if a family can't pay? Occasionally, a family is unable or unwilling to repay the cost of the land. In such cases, the community leadership committee will work within existing community bi-laws to resolve the issue. The Agros Approach How is the Agros approach unique? Agros' approach of working with the rural poor in long-term asset building makes its work unique. With the exception of some government efforts at land distribution, there are few organizations that have been willing to provide long-term land loans to the poor. Agros is also unique in its approach of avoiding dependency and paternalism in its relationship with participants. By working with each community to develop local leadership, governing bodies, and decision-making processes, individuals gain self-esteem and confidence in their own ability to make sound decisions about their future. This is "breaking free from the cycle of poverty" in the most profound way. Agros has discovered that lending to the poor can be a viable credit risk. A small loan can provide a poor family with just enough capital to help them break free from poverty. Families who understand that they will become self-sufficient owners of their own land at the end of their repayment period have great incentive to fulfill their loan obligations. In addition, by focusing its projects on specific geographical areas, Agros is able to maximize the efficiency of its work in rural areas and generate more possibilities for further economic development and impact. What is an Agros Village? An Agros village is a community comprised of a group of selected families (between 25 and 75) in need who are striving together to make a better future for themselves and their children. Each family is lent a parcel of land, materials to build a house and access to an integrated irrigation system. Through additional small business loans, education and accountability, economic sustainability is the goal to enable them to effectively repay the cost of their loans. Each village has community governance with elected positions that decide the goals and priorities based on input from other villagers. Villages have co-ops, community banks and other economically based programs all based on sustainability. How do new projects get started? First, a group of families interested in becoming an Agros village approaches Agros staff in Central America to nominate a village. Agros must then determine the village's degree of need and prioritize accordingly. We have a fixed number of communities that we can start each year according to funding. The Agros offices in each country work with the Seattle office to determine this number. Since the need for land is always greater than the financial resources available to start new communities, tough decisions have to be made. If resources are available to start a new community, Agros field staff will begin to work with potential villagers. Agros field staff work with the community leaders to learn about parcels available for sale, discuss sale price, and to develop negotiating strategies. Field staff survey the land, assess its quality, and determine land titles and water availability. If everything meets our standards and funds are available for land purchase, field staff give community leaders the go-ahead to begin negotiations. Land purchases are typically timed around the agricultural calendar. A parcel will be purchased in time to prepare the land for the first harvest. Simultaneously, Agros field staff get to know the members of the community, while community members learn about Agros' work. Typically, the most important issue for communities to understand is that Agros provides loans and assistance to help farming families build assets, but that we do not provide charity and free handouts. During the initial development phase, Agros provides services such as agricultural credit and training to create a relationship with the group. At this time the community is introduced to Agros and Agros observes the community's ability to cooperate and sees whether it responds well to the challenges of the Agros model. If community members agree to Agros' repayment policy, and if Agros believes there is a good fit, field staff will typically start with a small project, such as providing small 6-month loans for seeds and agricultural supplies. There is always a tremendous need for short-term credit in rural areas. These small projects provide a perfect testing ground for community members to experience the assistance Agros provides, while Agros field staff learn which community members are bona fide farmers who have a willingness to repay their loans and a desire to work hard to overcome their poverty. During this process, entire communities may choose not to continue to work with Agros, or larger groups of participating families may be whittled down to smaller groups. Typically this is due to Agros' repayment policy, which families may not take seriously until their small loan comes due. At this stage, Agros field staff may choose to go through another 6-month loan cycle with a community. This phase may also include agricultural training to help farming families learn appropriate techniques that will increase crop yields, or other training related to health and nutrition, depending on the needs of the community. Building Long-Term Change How does Agros's approach address long-term poverty issues such as rural-urban migration, education, and health? In our experience, land ownership brings tremendous change in the lives of the rural poor. This change cannot help but positively affect large, long-term poverty issues in the following ways: Improved land quality With the prospect of land ownership, families invest in the quality of their soil and new agricultural techniques which boost crop production, stimulate rural economies and bring greater prosperity to rural areas. Through Agros's agricultural training and support for income-generating activities, families can build lasting economic security for themselves and their children. Improved quality of life As income security is established, the quality of life increases and the potential for social unrest and civil conflict is reduced. Agros supports the unfolding of this "virtuous circle" through the elements of its model. By helping poor families purchase land, the development cycle begins. A stronger community Agros's training in leadership and community organization helps develop local leaders who can work together to resolve community problems and plan for an improved future using foresight gained through prior experiences. Improved health A diversified diet leads to better nutrition and better health. As a result, infant death and malnutrition are reduced, providing an incentive to have smaller families. Better educational opportunities Greater economic stability allows parents to part with child labor and enroll their children in school. Agros also helps communities in projects such as school building. Reduced rural-urban migration As economic prospects and quality of life improve, rural families have no reason to migrate. This leads to greater stability and prosperity as urban areas are not flooded with rural migrants looking for a better life. How does Agros's model affect the problem of illegal immigration into the United States? There are many reasons why immigrants leave the rural countryside and come to the United States. Among them are the conditions of extreme poverty in which people live and the lack of opportunities that enable families to overcome their poverty. Many of the people coming to the U.S. illegally are "economic migrants" - people who come in search of work. Poverty conditions and lack of work opportunities at home mean that these economic migrants are willing to leave their families, risk their lives, and find work in some of the least desirable conditions - often as menial laborers and minimum wage workers. Steady work is better than no work, and minimum wage in the U.S. is often more than they can earn in an entire day in their native country. Throughout Central America, political and economic conditions are such that no matter how hard people work, 60 percent are earning less than $1 per day and 40 percent are living below the poverty line. Unemployment and underemployment are rampant in the rural areas. There are simply not enough jobs to go around and no hope that circumstances will change any time soon. By helping rural families purchase land and build thriving communities, Agros provides an alternative for people who believe their only option is to migrate into the city or into another country, such as the U.S. Agros enables families to stay together and to generate income within their own countries and communities. Agros helps families create a livelihood for themselves that can be passed on to their children. As conditions improve, the motivation for becoming an economic migrant disappears. Families stay together, communities are strengthened, and lives are transformed. How do Agros projects help women? Women in developing countries and across Central America face grave challenges. As the primary caretakers of families and children, they are on the front lines of hunger, malnutrition and death in their families. Agros' programs cannot be successful or have a lasting impact if the health of women is in jeopardy. Many women in rural Central America: Lack access to prenatal care and are isolated from modern health facilities Get married as adolescents, start families at a young age, and don't know how to plan the size of their families Have a difficult time keeping their children healthy and well-nourished because they don't know how, or don't have the resources to prepare a well-balanced meal and lack knowledge of basic sanitation Are of poor health themselves because they sacrifice food and other resources for their children and are continuously breast feeding due to multiple consecutive births Agros' programs address the needs of women and children by creating a positive cycle of change. We help women achieve: Education : For young girls who would otherwise marry young and start families when they are little older than children themselves, Agros provides opportunities for them to go to school. Educated girls tend to marry later and their children tend to be healthier. Literacy training : Agros offers literacy training to adults, giving both men and women who were not able to go to school the opportunity to learn how to read and write. Financial independence : Agros trains women to manage a savings account and family finances because women tend to invest in their families. Business expertise : Through microenterprise development, Agros teaches women skills they can use to start their own businesses. Agros also teaches women (and their children) how to raise small animals close to home to generate income. Family planning and health care : Many women have had more than 5 children and have never received a gynecological exam or had access to prenatal care. Through the women's health initiative: Women learn about their bodies in a way that promotes self-esteem. Women with greater self-esteem become active in community organization. They get involved in village decision-making and develop leadership skills. Women receive regular physical exams, many for the first time in their lives. Agros works within the local culture to provide education about birth spacing and birth control so that women and their husbands can make informed decisions about family planning. People talk a lot about the importance of "sustainable development." How are Agros' methods sustainable? Sustainable development is an important element of Agros' work. Agros works to create sustainability in three primary areas: in the environment, in family economics, and in community organizations. Environmental sustainability begins by providing families with land. People take better care of and are more concerned about a resource over which they have ownership. Agros then provides training and technical assistance regarding the use and stewardship of this land. This includes the construction of composting latrines, improved wood burning stoves, and education on soil conservation, organic composting, and agro-forestry techniques. Economic sustainability begins with improved production of basic grains. When a family produces more food on less land, they become more confident in their ability to feed themselves. With food security established, they begin to try things they've never done before, for instance, growing foods that they can sell in the market and use to generate income. Once families begin to generate a stable income, they can begin to pay back their land loans. And once their loans have been repaid (typically within 10 years), they become self-sustaining owners of their own land. From this land, they are able to generate an on-going, stable income and provide an environment in which their children can thrive. Community sustainability is attained in two ways. First, we help give rural families the training to create a local community government that looks to the entire community for participation and decision-making. This becomes the backbone for civic responsibility and participation. It also becomes the primary way communities continue to thrive long after Agros has departed. The second way is through the Noemí Fund. What is the Noemí Fund? The Noemí Fund is a loan fund that provides the capital needed to buy land and develop village infrastructure, including the resources needed to administer and manage this fund. When a new community is started, the loan fund is used to match every dollar raised for the development costs of a new community, including field support and training. As communities begin to repay their loans, the payments are returned to the loan fund. As the loan fund is replenished, new communities can be started. What happens if Agros is not there? If Agros is not there to provide access to land ownership, opportunity and hope for a sustainable life is slowly choked out. Families will continue to face malnutrition. Lack of education will persist. Migration to urban centers will increase as the rural poor seek a viable life. As a result, dysfunctional structures will remain intact without being held accountable. Cities will become overcrowded and the families moving into them unable to find work or hope in their new location. Communities will become even more broken than before, and despair will overwhelm souls. Planning for the Future What are Agros's goals and plans for the future? Through 2006, our primary focus is to consolidate and strengthen existing projects in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Chiapas, Mexico. At the same time, Agros is ramping up organizational and financial capacity to ensure on-going growth past 2006. At the same time, the need for Agros's work is considerable in countries throughout the developing world. There are many opportunities beyond our current geographic focus that will be considered as part of a long-term expansion plan. We have received requests for assistance from communities in Brazil, India, Kenya, the Middle East, Romania and South Africa. Post-2006 expansion will be determined through a process of (1) documenting need amongst the rural poor; (2) engaging in prayer and discernment, (3) identifying local interest and leadership, (4) receiving an invitation to participate, and (5) raising the requisite funds. When these criteria are met, expansion into new geographies will be considered. Our Christian Commitment Is Agros a Christian organization? Agros is comprised of Christians who desire to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ by serving the rural poor regardless of their faith. We agree that spiritual transformation is key to holistic transformation. It is God who ultimately transforms the individual. Agros plays a role in encouraging the spiritual transformation of individuals in Agros communities. Faith plays a crucial role in the holistic development of the Agros communities. International development organizations worldwide recognize the overall importance of faith in development. The church is the community institution that will survive. It also provides the moral compass for the development of the community and its values for the present and future generations. How does religious faith impact the work you do in the field? We try to model and communicate biblical principles to assist in the transformation of lives. Our role in spiritual transformation is expressed by: Sharing and teaching biblical principles underlying our social and physical services: Land purchase and use Land ownership and repayment Work ethic and responsibility Community organization Leadership development Infrastructure development and maintenance Agriculture & enterprise training Health and education Agros personnel being prepared to respond to and answer the "Why" questions. Why is Agros doing this? Why are you doing this personally? Whom does Agros serve? Agros works with landless, rural families of all faiths who have demonstrated their agricultural vocation and a willingness to cooperate with Agros program goals and expectations. In most cases, Agros assists groups that have already been organized and who demonstrate a need and the values of community and concern for each other. We look for a history of working together and an understanding of the importance of hard work. We work with groups of people who have: Initiated a relationship with local Agros staff Committed to abide by the Agros program and principles Demonstrated active leadership that holds values consistent with those of Agros Shown characteristics that lead Agros staff to believe the group has a strong chance of succeeding as a community. In determining the potential for success of a community, one of the factors necessary is a group of believers in the local area (i.e. a church). We may work with groups that have no professing Christians. Our Funding How is Agros Funded? The funding for Agros comes from three primary resources: Individuals, churches and foundations. Individuals and churches support Agros in the following ways: General Giving Walk with a Family Special Projects and Appeals Journey with a Village Country offices also seek out resources from local and international organizations. There are in-kind donations such as trees, seeds and other supplies. Heifer Project International contributes support for training and small animal husbandry. Most recently the Noemí Fund was developed to provide capital needed to jumpstart development and match donations from other sources. This fund was started to make available rotating credit that is repaid, and to supply future capital. How You Can Help How can churches, community organizations, and businesses get involved with Agros? Agros welcomes opportunities to partner with churches, organizations and businesses through its "Journey with a Village" program. This program partners individuals, families, churches, foundations, businesses or community groups with rural landless families in developing countries where Agros works. The purpose of the partnership is to enable these families to purchase their own agricultural land, build a livelihood, restore self-dignity, and overcome poverty. As a JWAV partner, you have the opportunity to help change these families' lives forever by coming alongside them in a financial and relational commitment of up to 5 years. Our typical process is: Meet : Get to know you, introduce you to the work of Agros and explain the JWAV program. Match : Determine if your goals and the community's goals would benefit through partnership. Champion : Help you select a Village Champion to organize a committee and if desired, delegate responsibilities and provide prayer support. Visit : Put together a trip so that you and other potential supporters can meet the families involved in your new potential partnership. Partner : Formalize the partnership through a signed agreement and celebration with the community. How can I make a donation to Agros? Simply on click on Give Now to make and individual donation, or call us at 206-528-1066. Home | Give Now | How We Work | Inside Agros | Get Involved | Learn More | Contact © 2005 Agros International. 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