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MSN Money - Nothing quick about getting rich with real estate MSN Home Hotmail My MSN Sign In Money S earch MSN Money: Help Home News Banking Investing Planning Taxes My Money Portfolio Loans Insurance Investing Home Portfolio Markets Stocks Funds ETFs Commentary Brokers CNBC TV MSN Money Insight Jubak's Journal SuperModels Start Investing Strategy Lab Company Focus Mutual Funds Street Patrol Other Views Contrarian Chronicles TheStreet.com Resources Commentary Index Decision Centers Start Investing Mutual Funds Find Hot Stocks Simple Strategies Power Tools Investing For Income Real Estate Related Links Expert Picks Market Dispatches CNBC Stock Picks Message Boards Print-friendly version Send this to a friend Research any REIT Find top-performing mutual funds Sortable database of SEC filings Find stock winners with our screener Personal finance bookshelf Find It! Article Index Finance Q&A Tools Index Site Map Recent articles by MP Dunleavey: • How to invest when you've got just $500 , 1/15/2004 • Your 3 worst debt consolidation moves , 1/11/2004 • Feel guilty if youre not shopping? , 1/4/2004 More... Related Sites Robert Allen Institute Millionaire Hall of Fame National Association of Realtors John T. Reeds Web site John T. Reeds reviews of the real estate gurus Carleton Sheets Web site Joe Crumps Real Estate Moneymaker.com The Basics Nothing quick about getting rich with real estate advertisement A real estate seminar promoter promised to create 1,000 new millionaires, but so far none are in sight. See what happened to his believers. By MP Dunleavey Like a lot of people these days, Marjorie Stark wouldnt mind making a little extra cash -- or even a lot of it. So when she attended an information session for Robert Allens Creating Wealth Through Real Estate seminar in New York, she was more than willing to pay $2,495 for Allens intensive three-day course on real estate investment strategies. Concerned about not having enough to retire on and wanting to pass along some wealth to her kids some day, the 62-year-old New York City educator said to me then: I am convinced that real estate is the way to go. I was there that night, too, and I could scarcely resist the mouth-watering idea that those three days could make me rich. As the guy leading the session announced: We are on a mission to create 1,000 new millionaires in 12 months! A year later, Stark isnt any closer to being a millionaire. She hasnt bought any new property nor made any money on real estate -- except for the rental property she owned before and bought the hard way (with cash and bank loans). She even admitted that when she saw Robert Allens newest venture was in vitamin sales, I thought I was going to puke. I was very disillusioned. But Stark is undaunted and still believes there are fortunes to be made in real estate. She just enrolled in another seminar at a local college on how to buy distressed and foreclosed properties, she says. With a full-time job, Im not sure how I can do it, but, boy, am I itching to go! Start investing with $100. Explore our new ETF center. Theres something about real estate Stark is not alone. The National Association of Realtors doesnt track independent real estate investment seminars or how many people attend them, but their allure springs eternal like the get-rich hopes of those who sign up for these courses. The odds of winning are not high. Robert Allens 1,000 new millionaires never materialized in the last year, for example. Allen operates whats called The Enlightened Millionaire Institute. Its Millionaire Hall of Fame Web site lists only 50 millionaires (defined as having generated gains averaging $2.6 million). A spokesman admits not all of them exclusively used the Allen method of real estate investing. (And, in a disclaimer, the site notes, No information has been verified or authenticated. Results vary. All successes are subject to one's own knowledge and effort.) Despite all that, the Robert Allen Institute still conducts two or three seminars a week in different cities and says it reaches about 1,200 people each month. (Thats 1,200 x $2,495 = $2.99 million a month, in case you left your calculator home.) Allen is just one of dozens of artful salesmen who preach fancy financing, no money down, flipping properties quickly and numerous other strategies to get rich buying and selling real estate. And the question all this preaching raises is, do these investment techniques, systems and strategies really work? Can they actually make you rich? After all, would people keep trying it if it couldnt be done? Or are hundreds of thousands of people simply seduced by expert sales pitches and swindled out of hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars? Weighing the evidence Like so many things in life, it depends on whom you talk to. Or whose Web site you believe. John T. Reed is a real estate investment coach himself, based in Alamo, Calif. Hes also a self-appointed watchdog for this industry. He keeps the most exhaustive list I could find of dozens of so-called gurus, along with reviews of their techniques, books and other products. Although Reeds Web site , where you also can buy his various books for $29.95, reads a bit like he has a chip -- a very big chip -- on his shoulder, he was recommended by the National Association of Realtors as a serious investigator in the industry. Not that hes against real estate investment, or some of the reputable folks who teach their own hard-won wisdom. But those have been degraded by "the endless parade of B.S. artists coming into the real-estate-investment-advice field. It is an embarrassment to the good people in the business." And many people believe his grousing is justified. Norm Bour is the host of The Real Estate and Finance Hour on KLSX in Los Angeles, a top talk radio station. Hes worked in real estate as a mortgage lender and describes the proliferation of real estate seminars, workshops and scams as a major pet peeve. Case in point: foreclosures, he begins. Real estate in California has gone berserk in the last few years so people are looking for foreclosures to buy. The idea being you can buy a foreclosure more cheaply than other property and potentially gain a windfall when you sell it. But, as Bour notes, You can count on one hand how many actual foreclosure properties there are (for sale). Yet theres no lacking of people who are offering real estate foreclosure lists. One might pay $35 for a list, but it may be peppered with properties in other states. Its not fraudulent, but its certainly deceptive. The shady gray area Well-known personalities like Robert Allen or Carleton Sheets , who have extensive marketing organizations, are a little different, Bour says. They offer some very solid basics, but the number of people who can do what they propose is very small -- because they make it sound so much easier than it is. Thats what Josh Kelinson, a freelance advertising consultant in New York, found when he and two friends tried to follow the Sheets method. The three pals pooled their resources to master what Sheets preached, which is similar to the Allen method: buying property with no money down (or some other creative financing method) and flipping later on for a profit. One of his pals took the seminar, another bought the 8-CD set, etc. Thus inspired and determined, they tried to buy a building suitable for five apartments in Massachusetts, not far from where theyd all grown up. Kelinson says the actual experience of trying to buy an income property proved eye-opening. We spent a ton -- and I mean a ton -- of time on it. There was the approval process, the paperwork, getting lawyers. It took two to three hours a day, not including weekend travel time and unexpected snafus. I found it impossible to do with a full-time job. Ultimately, the project bogged down because of a major zoning problem. The building was in an area zoned for three apartments, and the building had been illegally converted into five apartments. The zoning authorities refused to grant an exception to the rules. Then, the building owner refused to return their deposit. The three were out $35,000. Still, Kelinson doesnt feel misled or duped by the Sheets method, and he and his friends are sure they can make it work with their next deal. There are a lot of other things out there that are scams, but this definitely can be done, he says. But investing in real estate is not nearly as easy as it looks, he says. Make sure you have the time to do it, he advises wannabe investors. If you dont allocate the time, it probably wont work. We want the system to work so much And therein lies the fundamental appeal, and ultimate trouble, of get-rich-quick (GRQ) strategies. Its the jackpot mentality, says psychologist Patricia Farrell, author of How to Be Your Own Therapist . Just like the schmoe who buys a winning lottery ticket -- every once in a while, someone, somewhere really does use these edgy real estate investment techniques to make millions. Its not the principles that are flawed, says Bour. Its the simplicity and ease that are overstated. Most of these courses are so seductive, Farrell says, because they operate according to a tried-and-true principle of behavioral psychology called the variable ratio reinforcement schedule. Basically, people (and rats) will persist in doing something, even with little or no return, if they are given the tiniest bit of hope of a coming reward. So the fact that some people do succeed at no money down strategies acts like a financial aphrodisiac for all those watching, waiting, hoping. So could the Starks and Kelinsons of the world be next? Is it just a matter of reapplying the Robert Allen/Carleton Sheets techniques until they work? Mark Wilson, one of the millionaires created by the Robert Allen Institute, would say yes. The president of Southeastern Housing Partners in Hickory, N.C., Wilson started investing in real estate in the late 1980s. We were doing OK, but nothing to write home about. Then in 2002, after hearing Robert Allen speak, Wilson paid $5,000 to join a one-year intensive coaching course. It changed his life, his business and, above all, his cash flow, he says. Although hed read Allen's No Money Down in college, the seminar focused more on another Allen signature strategy: developing multiple streams of income (from rentals, rehabs, buying foreclosed properties, commercial properties, etc.). Now, Wilson says, hes about to close a deal that will put his net worth at $8.5 million. He believes anyone can make big bucks from real estate if he or she is willing to take action -- not just sit on the sofa listening to tapes. Before you sign up, count to a million Of course, Wilson admits that it was easier for him to take the Robert Allen techniques and run with them. He had a lot of experience in real estate already. Most people, Bour points out, dont have those skills. And few people have the time or the diligence to acquire them. (Some skill sets you need to have -- and the course cant teach it to you, agrees Kelinson.) Bob Underwood of Stafford, Va., is one person who can testify to the fact that investing in real estate is not for those steeped in fantasy. Underwood bought an e-book from yet another author and teacher by the name of Joe Crump . Crump, who hails from Indianapolis, teaches a no-money-down technique, but he told me that he does it legally and ethically. Underwood, 43, has a wife and family and a full-time job -- and no time to muck about in real estate with no return. He paid Crump about $500 for one-on-one coaching in 2002 and, after a rocky start, has managed to buy three properties in the last two years. Hes sold one of them, made about $10,000, after taxes, in the process and is hoping to rehab and sell another this year. One deal Underwood did alone, the next was with a partner. He says theres no cookie-cutter method that works. What works, he says, is getting out into the market, investing the time to learn about the business, not neglecting your wife and kids (or day job), learning from your mistakes, making friends and getting advice from others as you move forward. Slowly, steadily and not particularly wealthily. Remember, you have to pay capital gains (taxes) on the profits, he says, so its not a lot of money in the end. But that, of course, isnt what people want to hear. People are lead to believe that all you need is the right plan and youll make a million, that if you use this system youll be rewarded, says psychologist Farrell. They dont realize that the possibility of getting that big reward is so remote. 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Real Estate Investors Club, Los Angeles, California, LA Free Newsletter & Timely Tips on Real Estate Investing Email: more info We value your privacy and never give out your information Home About Us Membership Events Educational Tools Interesting Sites Free Stuff Investing 101 Advertise with Us Sell Your House Fast! Calendar Message Boards Recommended Vendors Contact Us Do You Want to Be Financially Free? The only way you will ever achieve true and lasting financial independence is with the ultimate source of money: Real Estate! No other vehicle has consistently helped investors make money - especially California Real Estate. Take control of your future. You too can make money in real estate - lots of it - and in all kinds of markets. We are experts on real estate market conditions in Southern California, from Palmdale and up into Ventura County to Long Beach and outward to the Inland Empire. Dont reinvent the wheel. If you are committed to using real estate investment as a vehicle to create both short and long-term financial security for you and your family, you need to find out what how other successful people have done it and just copy their strategies. You dont need money or credit. What you do need is desire, education, and a real estate team. The Real Estate Investors Club of Los Angeles will help you form that team. You need to know a cooperative hard moneylender, a mortgage broker, a title company, an escrow company, a realtor, a birddog, an appraiser, a real estate attorney, and people you can go to for mentoring. Reic of LA holds monthly networking meetings along with periodic real estate educational seminars. Our meetings include local as well as national speakers such as Bruce Norris, Ron LeGrand, Jeff Kaller, Robyn Thompson, Bill Bronchick, David Finkel and Peter Conti. Make a commitment to achieving a financial quantum leap. Join us at meetings and sign up for our newsletter to get timely real estate information about the real estate market in Los Angeles and Southern California that you wont get anywhere else. We cover money making topics such as: Getting started Finding money Qualifying buyers Buying and Selling paper Asset Protection No Money Down Creative Financing Saving Taxes Landlording Mobile Homes Rehabbing 1031 Exchanges Working with brokers Lease/Options Foreclosures Whether you are an investor, broker, mortgage lender, contractor or landlord, you are welcome to join our association if creating wealth using real estate is your goal. Monthly Meeting Tuesday, January 10 th Speaker: Robert Campbell Campbell Marketing Timing Newsletter Topic: Real Estate Bubble: Time Bomb or Dud for more info click here Investing Outside of California? Check out our Out of State Expo Click Here for More Info Bruce Norris California Downturn Click Here MONTHLY MEETINGS Meetings are held on the 2nd Tuesday of each month at 7:30 PM at The Crown Plaza - LAX Hotel, 5985 W. Century Blvd., Los Angeles, CA. The $25 admission fee for non members includes an expert speaker each month, refreshments and great networking! << Next Meeting's Speaker Individuals with allied professions are invited to network with us. Click Here to join our mailing list so we can keep you posted on upcoming events. For Information on How to Advertise on this Site, Email dina@realestateclubla.com or call 310-793-7069. Any product you purchase through REIC of LA has a 30 day money back guarantee. We are a secure site. We NEVER sell or give your information to anyone. Home Newsletter & Tips Calendar Next Meeting Membership Contact Us ©2005 The Real Estate Investor's Club | CP | WebMail Created by EMA

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