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real estate prices in

MemeFirst: New York real-estate prices explained -- MemeFirst December 01, 2005 New York real-estate prices explained The 2.2 million jobs in Manhattan pay, on average, $2,025 per week . (You know that feeling you get when you find out you're below average? I've been having that for years.) Manhattan is 22 square miles, which means that the island of Manhattan pays, on average, $378 per square foot per year . And that includes Washington Heights. Posted by Felix at 02:54 PM GMT All proceeds go to MSF -- Comments #1 Pity we can't all work for Goldman Sachs. Posted by: Gherimiah on December 1, 2005 03:28 PM #2 I'll happily defer to someone with a firmer grasp of stats on this, but in the meantime, I wonder, does that average income number tell you very much? Given the massive disparity in Manhattan incomes, between, say, the dishwasher and the hedge-fund owner, which surely are among the widest in the country, wouldn't you also need to know the distribution of the data points? At a minium, wouldn't you want also to know the median income? Also, is this net or gross? Article talked about paychecks, which could probably mean either. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:36 PM #3 Oh, and also, Felix, presumably the 2.2 million people with jobs in Manhattan don't all live there, so your extrapolation doesn't wash. Posted by: Matthew on December 1, 2005 04:38 PM #4 Obvs mean incomemedian income, and I'd be surprised if more than 40% of Manhattanites made above average. Probably less. But even so. And actually, the fact that there are 2.2 million jobs to 1.5 million people in Manhattan actually only serves to exacerbate the demand-supply imbalance when it comes to real estate. Posted by: Felix on December 1, 2005 04:53 PM #5 I hate to be the one to break this to you, Felix, but nearly all residential housing in Manhattan consists of multi-story buildings. The salary range you describe explains real estate prices in Westchester County, NY and Bergen County, NJ to about the same degree as prices in Manhattan. Posted by: Sterling on December 1, 2005 07:05 PM #6 How delightful that the discussion of property prices one is sometimes unable to defuse at dinner parties just carries on here - almost as if taunting one with its dreary ineluctability. And how nice that Felix should bring along his no doubt expert appreciation of statistical lore. The one thing I am missing is the crucial evaluation of bedbug incidence as it affects property prices in Manhattan. In another thread, Betty has said this bedbug malarkey is all a plan of Bush's. For myself, I prefer to recall that bedbugs tend to originate in Belgium. Schtumm for now. More on this later. Posted by: Claude de Bigny on December 1, 2005 08:40 PM #7 Also, this seems to imply that everyone pays all of their income for housing, which is hopefully not the case. To be more realistic (ignoring the issues rightly brought up by the other commentators, including whether all of those people actually live in Manhattan and whether you can just take the sq ftge of Manhattan as the residential sq ftge), say people on average spend 40% of their income on housing. That gets your income for housing per sq ft to around $151. Posted by: Susan on December 1, 2005 09:14 PM #8 Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan is used for housing? According to this http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/landusefacts/landuse_tables.pdf (in case you are confused by the graph, the percents sum together veritcally and the land area sum horizontally). And even assuming that all "Mixed Residential and Commercial" was used for housing, less than 38% of the land in Manhattan is for housing. These data certainly allow for the idea that much of rent paid in Manhattan is for commercial use, and even then, a considerable percent is used for public space (Central Park alone is 10% of the area of Manhattan). Anyway, the amount people earn in a particular location is not directly related to the amount the people who live there earn, or the amount the people live there pay for rent. Look at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/index.html The direct link is unavailable, but the Median household income for New York County was 43,573. Nassau County on the other hand is more than 71,000. In which place is it cheaper to rent by the foot? Posted by: Andrew on December 2, 2005 07:22 AM #9 I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan because of vertical construction b) a lot of upper-income Manhattan workers live outside Manhattan, and their buying power lifts prices in tony bedroom communities Posted by: Sterling on December 3, 2005 03:38 PM #10 OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan has 400 square feet to call their own: that works out to 1200 square feet for the average family of three and 1600 square feet for the average family of four. Generous, I'd say. That comes out to 600 million square feet of residential real estate in Manhattan. Using that figure, my calculation actually comes out slightly higher : $386 per square foot per year, rather than $378. What makes you think that there's more than 22 square miles of residential floor space in Manhattan? As for your point b, I fail to see how it is in any way germane. Posted by: Felix on December 3, 2005 11:09 PM #11 OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1.5 million residents with 409 square feet of living space. But I don't believe that most Manhattan residents are actually so deprived, especially when you take into account common areas in apartment buildings such as laundry facilities, hallways, lobbies, etc. I'd be surprised if the average wasn't at least 600, and it's probably more than 800. And besides, that's not what you originally meant - you were dividing Manhattan's land footprint and not taking into account its vertical expansion. As for the second point, I suspect there's a strong tendency among $100,000 - $1,000,000 per annum Manhattan earners - which is well-off to wealthy-on-a-budget - to live in places like Valhalla and Ho-Ho-Kus, especially if they're married with kids. Family-flight in turn increases the average per-capita-square-footage of the Manhattan residential footprint through bleed-off of children. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:29 AM #12 Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping score at home, he really did just say that the average Manhattanite has 800 square feet of their own. So if you're an average person living with 2 roommates, that means you're in a 2400 square foot apartment. In Manhattan. Yeah. Oh, and that 350 square foot apartment you've got? It's not 350 square feet at all, it's probably more than 4000 square feet. You're just not including the lobby and all the hallways. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 02:43 AM #13 My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to between 600 and 800 square feet per resident of Manhattan. You're not only challenging this, but asserting that my claim is absurd. Sure you wanna do that? Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 02:59 AM #14 I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is measured in square footage, residential space is simply measured, in all documents, by units. But we can work with that. So far I've learned that 82% of zoned lots in Manhattan are residential, making up about 280,000,000 square feet, which includes permanently undeveloped spaces like yards and gardens. If the average height of development across all that land is four stories, then, we're looking at about 750 square feet per person. I've also learned that in 1999 there were about 727,000 residential units in Manhattan , which means that the average unit houses two people. So those three-roomies crammed into one 800-square-foot-tenement-with-the-bathtub-in-the-kitchen examples are mostly fiction. Which is a shame because I get a tingle from the mental picture of Manhattan twenty- and thirty-somethings living in cramped, dingy conditions. If we divide the total residential land area by the total number of units, we get 385 square feet, which works out to 192.5 square feet per person, assuming no dwellings above one story in height and no unimproved/vacant land. If the average height is assumed to be four stories, in this scenario we get about 770 square feet per person. Here's a report from Prudential Douglas Elliman that details its 1Q 2005 sales. Units sold averaged 1,334 square feet, which divided by two yields 767 square feet per person. Breaking it down further we find co-ops averaging 1,197 square feet, condos at 1,496 square feet, luxury at 2,921 and loft at 2,145. So that's 598.5 square feet per person at the low end all the way up to 1,460.5 at the top. There's three separate analytical models for you Felix, all of which yield per-person square footage of 750 or better. I admit they're not all that fleshed out, but I'm stuck inside with a cold watching The Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three on DVD, and I'm disinclined to dig deeper. But you're welcome to. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 04:04 AM #15 Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw space? Building density is higher here than anywhere else in America, but 15% to circulation (in buildings and streets themeselves) would be an easily defended metric. Counting hallways in urban residential structures is like counting sidewalks as part of sf for suburban homes. As much Sterling does sound like a set designer for Friends, Felix, I gotta say, of the 25 or so apartments of people that I can definitely make an estimate of size, we average 500 sf easy. Most everyone is a half a standard tenement lot (25 x 25), with a couple of lofts and post-war, large-scale developments thrown in. This is skewed because many of them are single (I live in a 2bd alone) or have rent-controlled apartments from way back. Posted by: 99 on December 4, 2005 07:19 PM #16 Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd like to know. (They're also based on a multiplier of 4, which as far as I can tell came pretty much out of thin air.) As for apartment sales, in Manhattan individual condos and coops tend to be much larger than the apartments inside rental buildings. So if you look just at sold apartments as opposed to rented apartments, you're going to get a skewed figure. What's more, if a 3800-square-foot brownstone in Harlem, say, is sold and then the downstairs floor is rented out, that still counts as a 3800 square foot deal under these figures. Posted by: Felix on December 4, 2005 09:21 PM #17 The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from this PDF . Sorry, thought I'd linked to it initially. As for rental apartments being smaller than privately owned condos or co-ops...not sure I buy that. But even if it's true, how much smaller could they be? 10%? Doesn't really matter. You can apologize any time now. Posted by: Sterling on December 4, 2005 10:06 PM #18 if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city? http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bytes/applbyte.shtml in the meantime, simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about, i downloaded a list of all the residential tax lots from 14th street and below from propertyshark. only 14th street and below, because after 6000+ entries, i became bored. 14th street down is a good representative sample of the 99000+ residential tax lots in manhattan. it includes spacious luxury lofts of tribeca, tenements of the les, projects on the eastside, high rise high density battery park and half building condo conversions of downtown (note that a rental bldg with multiple units counts as a single tax lot with the number of units listed as a seperate data field). the average unit size works out to 1100sf with 590sf per person (based 2000 census population stats for 14th st & below). this includes all common space in a building as it is based on total building size for single tax lot (rental) buildings and counts common space tax lots for condo buildings (read lobbies, circ, etc.) multiplying back out by the 2000 census population numbers for manhattan of 1,537,195... we get 906,945,050sf of residential space in manhattan. let's call that an even 9Bsf since the city lists 3800 acres of lot area in manhattan (165,500,000sf), that gives a rough overbuild factor of 5.5. this will obviously skew higher with the ues & uws densities without actually affecting the sf/person. summary- -590sf of residential per person (inclusive of common areas). close to sterlings low estimate of 600, but nowhere near the 800sf -1100sf average size per unit (inclusive of common areas). again close to sterlings guess based on broker mumbojumbo, but still below the stated average. -9Bsf of residential space in manhattan sterling- close on your numbers, but not nearly close enough to be quite so pompously smug. stick to things you know about, like why bush is a foreign policy genius. felix- remind me what this related to? Posted by: geoff on December 5, 2005 12:34 AM #19 Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with such comedic outrage. Also, I don't think 14th St. and below is a good representative sample. Newer and I suspect more spacious high-rises make up a much larger proportion of housing from the 30s up through the low 100s. So I'm sticking with 600+. I suspect the actual number is around 750, as stated above. As for your justification of your work - "simply because i am tired of having to read sterlings pontifications about things he knows anything about" - I'm not sure what it means. Perhaps you meant to write "nothing" instead of "anything"? I'm not claiming to be right all the time - I am not right all the time. I am, however, pretty much always right whenever Felix gets all worked up and tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for your small role in marking off another example for me to throw back at him at some future date. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 06:19 AM #20 Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the PDF you yourself linked to shows (see page 24), the vast majority of apartments in Manhattan are renter-occupied. Think about it: one needs maybe 350 sq ft per person to live in some reasonable comfort. Beyond that, you're shelling out extra cash for extra space. Owners are happy doing that because they have 100% equity in that space: everyone has heard the advice that they should buy the biggest apartment they can afford. Renters, on the other hand, are simply giving away thousands of dollars in rent every month, with nothing at all to show for it. So they tend to go not for the biggest apartment they can afford, but rather the cheapest apartment they find adequate. Put it this way: Manhattan is full of individuals spending an enormous proportion of their income on outsize mortgage payments. Almost everyone, when they move from renting to buying, sees their monthly housing costs rise substantially. If you move to Manhattan and have a relatively low income, then you might spend a crazy amount of it on rent, it's true. But if your income is average or higher (and remember that average is $2,025 per week), I very much doubt that your rent is making nearly as much of a dent in your paycheck as it would if you owned your own apartment. You reach a standard of living you're comfortable with, and you stop. Anything beyond that is money which you could otherwise spend on clothes, or travel, or restaurants. Whereas if you buy , you're not spending so much as investing. The only money which you're really spending is the interest on your mortgage -- and even that comes with a tax deduction. Or let's put it another way. That Elliman report you linked to has an average sales price of $1.21 million. A typical rental yield in Manhattan these days is 4%, so if rentals were functionally identical to owner-occupied apartments, which you seem to assume, then the average rent in Manhattan would be over $4,000 a month. In fact, of course, it's nowhere near that. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 06:55 AM #21 There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th street. Sterling, dear, north of that bright white line, the housing stock is incredibly stable and consistent in terms of size and layout. Harlem is just now getting it's first 'luxury' apartment building in a half century. Any larger apartment complexes are housing projects, which have smaller units by definition, and, allowing for the dispersal of the towers in some International Style fantasy also insures that the density does not increase much. Posted by: 99 on December 5, 2005 04:03 PM #22 Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that everyone who owns an apartment paid that much. Rent prices move in sympathy with real estate prices but are less prone to bubbles. What you're missing here, and you've missed the same thing when we've talked about the stock market in the past, is the difference between speculative investors and income investors. Speculators don't buy an apartment (or apartment building) primarily for the benefit of the rent; their main motivation is the hope of flipping the property at some later date for a larger sum than they paid for it. The current Manhattan real estate bubble is the product of speculators. Real estate income investors view rent collection as their goal - most apartment buildings in any town or city in the U.S. are owned by income investors. They get less press than speculators, but they also tend to go bankrupt less often. The market value of a rental property can be determined by the amount of rent it generates for the owner, not the other way around. Manhattan rents are high - probably even ludicrously high - but that is a function of large demand chasing relatively low supply, and is only weakly related to current real estate prices. I do acknowledge your point about space not being a priority for Manhattan renters, there is some truth in that. People who do see space as a necessity tend to wind up in rental units in Brooklyn, Queens or Hudson County. But that's not exclusively the case. Posted by: Sterling on December 5, 2005 04:59 PM #23 This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be applied to support any and all political positions. Posted by: sac on December 5, 2005 06:39 PM #24 Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it. For one thing, co-op boards (and even condo boards, for that matter) hate flippers, and are likely to punish them. There's flip taxes, brokers' fees of 6% for the seller, and a luxury tax of 1% on any apartment over $1m for the buyer. Prices are so high that the carrying costs are enormous -- and you can't rent out the apartment in the meantime, because that makes it pretty much unsaleable. There are, of course, lots of buildings owned by income investors in New York. Most of the East Village, where I live, is comprised of such buildings: they normally have 20 or so apartments (say 5 floors, 4 apartments per floor), and they've been going up in price almost as much as individual apartments have -- the only reason they haven't gone up just as much is because many of the tenants are rent-controlled or rent-stabilised below market. These are typical New York apartments, from a renter's point of view -- but I can tell you, as someone who was apartment hunting in the East Village for almost a year, they're much less typical from an owner's point of view. Also, there's a strong incentive for for-sale apartments to be as large as possible: price per square foot is positively correlated with size. That's not the case in the rental market: it's easier to rent out a 650sqft apartment for $2500 than it is to rent out a 1300sqft apartment for $5000. Posted by: Felix on December 5, 2005 09:14 PM #25 "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, zero speculators under your definition. No one buys Manhattan property in order to flip it." Felix, of course people speculate on property in Manhattan. Just because the barriers to entry are high doesn't mean some won't jump them. How else do you think a modest apartment winds up costing as much as a dozen Mercedes-Benz CL500s? Who do you imagine is providing demand at that level? You know banks are not issuing $1,000,000 mortgages to households with joint incomes of $200,000. It's trust fund kiddies - who are often divorced from fiscal reality - and speculators. As for your point about different-sized apartments being suitable for rent versus sale, I might agree with you except for the fact that every rental apartment IS OWNED by someone. It IS PART of the for sale market. I'd be surprised if fewer than half of the condos in Manhattan are rented out by their owners. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 01:51 AM #26 Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your feverish mind would like to imagine. Lots of global liquidity, driving down interest rates and banks' credit tests. Lots of demand, due to Manhattan's status as the center of the universe and high Wall Street bonuses. And very limited supply. The market for flippers is Miami, not NYC -- where a condo can be bought and sold three or four times before it is even built. As for your point about rental apartments being owned by someone, it sounds clever until you stop to think about what I've already said. Rental buildings are owned by landlords; the vast majority of condos and co-ops are owner-occupied. For one thing, co-ops vastly outnumber condos, and they're hard to rent. And as for condos, they generally get rented out when they're not the place their owner really wants to live. Given how valuable they are, few owners who don't want to live here would rather rent out their condos rather than simply sell them. Take my East Village condo building, for instance: when it went condo in 1983, only one owner lived here. Today, all the units bar one are owner-occupied. I haven't done my homework on this, but I'll happily accept your wager: I'll bet the standard bottle of vintage champagne that more than half the condos in Manhattan are owner-occupied. Deal? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 02:43 AM #27 If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor space in Manhattan divided by the number of residents of Manhattan is equal to or greater than 600 sq. ft., then it's a bet. How are we going to research this? FWIW, I am descended from a man who is reputed to be the first person to negotiate a real estate deal in New York: Wessel Wesselse (ten Broek). He may have been the man to offer 60 guilders (often misreported as $24) as the purchase price of Manhattan from the Canarsies. (Technically the Canarsies didn't own Manhattan Island - it's not for nothing that "Canarsie" is in Brooklyn. Also technically the Dutch West India Company didn't care which tribe owned it. It just needed some bunch of natives to smile and sign off on the deal to keep the English away.) This of course conveys no special knowledge upon me, but it certainly adds a humorous subtext to our disagreement. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 04:14 AM #28 I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the same time. But spell it out, and I'll be amenable. I do want to ensure, of course, that hallways and elevator shafts and the like do not count as residential floor space. And please also ensure that if one of the propositions can be determined while the other one can't, then the other wager still stands. Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 05:55 AM #29 I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. However, it occurs to me that Manhattan Borough probably requires a statement of total dwelling space for its Certificate of Occupancy, so that would work for me. And no, I think double or nothing sounds good to me, especially since we will be attempting to falsify two of my estimations, rather than either of yours. Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:20 AM #30 You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the residential floor space, and no bet at all on the proportion of condos which are rented out? Or what? It makes no sense to me: "double or nothing" normally happens after A has lost a bet and B has won it. Then going double or nothing means that either B wins double the original amount, or he wins nothing. You essentially run the bet over again. Are you maybe trying to propose something whereby if I lose I lose 2BVCs, and if I win I win nothing? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:44 AM #31 Are you trying to squirm out of it? Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:03 PM #32 Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just tell me the terms! Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 06:12 PM #33 I did! Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:25 PM #34 OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow and slush. Um, OK. My terms for the bet is those two things specified, avg. sq. footage = 600 and = 50% of condos. Either side has to get both right to collect. gotta run Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 06:51 PM #35 So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unverifiable, then it's a wash? Posted by: Felix on December 6, 2005 07:22 PM #36 Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to track residential rental inventory by units, rather than by square footage. Also, most owners of condominium units who rent them out do so through agents - even the tenant may be only vaguely aware of the legal status of the unit. In NJ I don't think an individual condo owner even needs to report the unit as a rental property if it's in a building that's already inspected under multi-family housing regulations (or if it's a standalone unit or duplex). The rent revenue has to be reported as taxable income, naturallly, but not to any entity with housing oversight. So make it for one bottle and yes both figures have to be verifiable. That said, if either of us can show a grouping of not-completely-conclusive figures from multiple sources that seem reasonable and fall long or short of my guesses by ten percent or more, then I think we should accept them. (Of course, I have arguably already met this condition with my square footage prediction, and Geoff's calculations don't contradict it under the 10% rule I suggest.) Posted by: Sterling on December 6, 2005 10:05 PM #37 as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the city from the cities web site... google 'bytes of the big apple' and look at the 'pluto' product. the license fee is $250 or you can get the info from propertyshark.com. there are 99000+ listings for manhattan. at 100 listings per page, thats a lot of cutting and pasting into excel. both of these will give you tax lot sizes (whole buildings/unit count or condo unit), which will be inclusive of common area. 10-15% is considered a fairly standard deduction for circulation. mechanical space is not included in the floor area count. happy dueling Posted by: geoff on December 6, 2005 10:29 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Yes No Anti-spam question: Share four cupcakes equally among four people. How many does each person get (in digits)? Comments: XML Atom RSS 2.0 RSS 1.0 Sources Eurof Felix Jame Michelle Mike Sage7 Stefan Sterling &c. Disclaimer Archive 12/05 11/05 10/05 09/05 08/05 07/05 06/05 05/05 04/05 03/05 02/05 01/05 12/04 11/04 10/04 09/04 08/04 07/04 06/04 05/04 04/04 03/04 02/04 01/04 12/03 11/03 10/03 09/03 Old site Recent posts 08/12: Not man enough (1) 08/12: Fare's fair (0) 07/12: Briddishisms (5) 06/12: The Trial of Saddam (5) 05/12: Leg deficiencies (4) 01/12: New York real-estate prices explained (37) 30/11: Bad vibe (22) 30/11: Thick-headed bouncers (0) 29/11: Argentina's sinister move (2) 28/11: Bedbugs and the city (8) 27/11: I've got a fast card (1) 22/11: Pedestrianize Broadway! (5) 19/11: Century 21 the next casualty at Ground Zero? (23) 19/11: Johnny Depp - sunshine traitor (4) 18/11: Gawker F***** by Yahoo! (7) Comments 06/12: geoff: as i mentioned earlier, you can get the sf and unit count for every residential tax lot in the ci 06/12: Sterling: Honestly, Felix, I doubt either number is verifiable. Like I wrote above, the city appears to tr 06/12: Felix: So if one of us gets both right, he wins 1BVC or 2BVCs? And if one of the two turns out to be unv 06/12: Sterling: OK, have a few moments now, I had to get someplace before 2pm and the roads are crap with snow an 06/12: Sterling: I did! 06/12: Felix: Sterling, will you propose your bet already? I've already said that I'm likely to accept. Just te 06/12: Sterling: Are you trying to squirm out of it? 06/12: Felix: You've lost me, I'm afraid. When you say "double or nothing", are you proposing a 2BVC bet on the 06/12: Sterling: I'm not sure how we could specify the terms to exclude elevators if they are included in filings. 06/12: Felix: I'm not sure about the terms of the wager: we seem to be betting on two different things at the s 06/12: Sterling: If you go double or nothing on the proposition that the amount of existing residential floor spac 06/12: Felix: Sterling, I'm afraid the factors leading to high apartment prices are much more mundane than your 06/12: Sterling: "Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and purposes, 05/12: Felix: Sterling, Manhattan is the one real-estate market in the US where there are, to all intents and p 05/12: sac: This thread is hilarious and sad, although a good example of how the same statistics can be appli 05/12: Sterling: Felix, just because apartments are currently going for $1.21 million a pop doesn't mean that ever 05/12: 99: There's the shark, and then there's the A train. Sterling's Manhattan clearly stops at 96th stree 05/12: Felix: Renter-occupied apartments are much smaller than owner-occupied apartments. And as the < 05/12: Sterling: Geoff - The only reason I was pompously snug is because Felix had reacted to to my estimates with 05/12: geoff: if anyone is real curious why not pony up the $250 to get a list of every tax lot in the city?<br 04/12: Sterling: The multiplier of 4 was back-of-envelope guess. The 280,000,000 number came from <a href 04/12: Felix: Where does your 280m sq ft number come from? Your first two calculations are based on it, so I'd 04/12: 99: Sterling: do your calculations include infrastructure or is the 280MM number a percentage of raw 04/12: Sterling: I've tried to find the statistic, but to no avail. It seems that while office space inventor is 04/12: Sterling: My claim is that the amount of residential-zoned floor space in Manhattan probably works out to b 04/12: Felix: Sterling jumped the shark so long ago it's probably not surprising, but for those of you keeping 04/12: Sterling: OK, 22 square miles equals about 613,324,800 square feet. That would leave each of Manhattan's 1 03/12: Felix: OK, Sterling, let's do it your way. Assume that each of the 1.5 million residents of Manhattan ha 03/12: Sterling: I don't think I'm confused. My points are: a) there is actually quite a bit more than 22 02/12: Andrew: Susan and Sterling, you are embarassingly confused. What percentage of real estate in Manhattan i Trackbacks

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Buy Property

Brisbane - Buying property in Brisbane - ourbrisbane.com Search ourbrisbane.com: Skip to page content Start major navigation What's On Living In Active and Healthy Visitors’ Guide Start minor navigation Members' Area Email News & Weather Transport Maps About Brisbane Dining Guide Mostly Sunny. 23-32 °C . Currently 25.7 °C Living In Start side navigation Introduction Find a suburb Brisbane Real Estate Buying Guide Buying Property in Brisbane Statistics, Tools & Tips Legal Considerations Selling Guide Search Homes for Sale Search Homes for Rent Renting in Brisbane Renovation and investment tips Mortgage Calculator Maps Moving to Brisbane Jobs Brisbane Life Gardening in Brisbane Home Renovation Home Security Start page content Buying property in Brisbane What’s different about buying real estate in Brisbane? Well, some things stay the same no matter where you’re buying, such as finding a good agent and knowing the features you want in your new home. But there are things unique to Brisbane, such as local planning, zoning changes and flood information that influence the local property prices . The architecture of the property you buy can also impact the price. Find out the difference between a traditional Queenslander, a workers cottage and a reproduction Queenslander. If you haven’t bought property in Queensland before, we can help by connecting you to organisations and businesses that will advise you about the relevant legal processes and related laws. Plus there are a few things that can affect Brisbane’s local property prices which you need to know about. If you are new to living in the sub-tropics and in Queensland architecture, we explain some of the different housing styles and what you should look for in your new home to stay cool and comfortable. Looking to buy in Brisbane? Use our inspection checklist when you’re looking at various properties. Print out a few spares to take with you when you’re checking out potential new homes. It’s an easy way to remind yourself of the features, benefits and drawbacks of each of the properties you’ve looked at. If you’re not sure about where in Brisbane you want to live, use Brisbane Suburbs Online . It has everything you need to know, including statistics, demographics, local services and suburb profiles. back to top Legalities of buying a home in Brisbane The website for the REIQ has a wealth of information about the legalities and processes of buying a Queensland property. Read the recommended steps when buying and understand the associated costs . It is usual to get a pest and building inspection prior to buying and acceptance of the contract can be made subject to a satisfactory pest and building inspection. Termites (also called white ants) can be a very real threat and it is best to get the property checked by an expert. See the list of inspectors offering this service in Brisbane . The Office of Fair Trading publishes a helpful guide for consumers buying property. The guide is called ‘Real Estate Realities’ and it can be downloaded as a large pdf file or call 1300 658 030 for a printed copy. It outlines your rights and some common pitfalls. The guide also explains what ‘buying off the plan’ involves and your rights if buying at auction. Buying off the plan and bidding at auctions can be complex and your rights are different to those under a regular REIQ contract, so protect yourself by being well informed. See the houses available at auction from the Public Trustee and for sale . If you are considering buying a property at auction from the Public Trustee, you should read their conditions first. When you buy or sell a house you need to transfer the property title. This is called conveyancing. You’ll need to budget for the costs of conveyancing and searches when you buy. The ourbrisbane business directory has listings of local conveyancing companies to help you with the legal aspects of buying or selling your property. Some searches required for conveyancing can be lodged online through Brisbane City Council . You can also search for existing building plans and Brisbane property through Brisbane City Council. Buyer’s agents – if you would rather someone else did the househunting and tricky negotiations, think about using a buyer’s agent. They can also do research on the property and location or bid at auction on your behalf. Buyer’s agents charge a fee for their services. back to top What influences Brisbane housing prices? House prices aren’t just influenced by boom or bust real estate cycles. In Brisbane there are a number of factors that could affect house prices, including: The South East Queensland Draft Regional Plan as proposed by the Queensland Government, intends to limit development to certain areas of South East Queensland. For updates, check with the Office of Urban Management . The proposed North South Bypass Tunnel , to be built under the Brisbane River. Depending on the final location of entry and exit points, plus the impact on traffic, this project could influence property prices. Keep up-to-date with the project’s progress. The Green Bridge – between Dutton Park and St Lucia for bus and pedestrian use may affect prices in those suburbs. Flooding - Consider getting a flood report from Brisbane City Council for a small fee. It’s a worthwhile investment, particularly if you are thinking of buying in an area prone to flooding . Zoning changes – The Brisbane City Council Call Centre is probably the best place to find initial information about zoning restrictions on any property you want to buy. Call 07 3403 8888. They can tell you what area the property is in, and any building restrictions. back to top Architecture If you are buying a house in Brisbane, real estate agents classify houses using some common terms. Here are our definitions of the main styles of architecture found in Brisbane (as understood by laymen and not architecture experts!). They are: The Queenslander - a traditional home built of timber, with VJ (vertical join) or tongue and groove walls, tin roof and surrounded by verandahs. Built in this style until mid-1930s, Queenslanders are built on stumps to increase airflow around the house and the floors are of timber that can be polished. Some of the pretty features includes breezeways above the doors, moulded or plaster ceilings, leadlight windows and window hoods. A Queenslander-type house may not be able to be demolished or removed, depending upon the relevant local Council laws and if it is in a demolition control precinct . The Queensland Museum has detailed information about the different styles of Queenslander house and history. Worker’s cottage - very similar to a Queenslander home but smaller, with usually only a verandah at the front and a single hallway. May have less ornate finishes and be on a smaller parcel of land. If you are new to living in Brisbane, and you want to live in a traditional tin and timber home, consider a couple of things: they require maintenance – they need to be painted every ten years and constant attention is required to keep old windows, doors and plumbing functioning properly. can be noisy – they usually only have single-skin timber internal walls, which means that noise passes through rooms easily. Polished floorboards and lack of insulation in external walls can add to the noise factor from inside and outside. hidden renovation costs – if the house is unrenovated you may need to pay for a lot of work that won’t be seen, such as replacing old stumps, reroofing and rewiring. However, they are beautiful, have character and we love them. And compared to brick homes, Queenslanders are relatively easy to lift so you can build underneath, and removing internal walls or building additions (assuming you have a good builder) is usually fairly simple. Post-war home - a less ornate timber home built in the years following World War II. Simple lines, plaster internal walls, plain timber windows (sometimes replaced with aluminium) and timber floors. There are fewer constraints on a post-war home as it can often be removed or demolished without special permission. Brick home - common in Brisbane suburbs established in the 1970s. These areas are generally around a ten kilometer radius of the city. Features includes a tiled roof, garage, aluminium windows, fly screens and security. Lots have swimming pools and can be updated to reflect current trends Reproduction Queenslander - a newly built home designed to look like a traditional Queenslander or worker’s cottage. However they feature new conveniences such as an ensuite, better use of floorspace to suit modern lifestyles, plenty of powerpoints and cabling, insulation, large deck and sometimes airconditioning. Apartments - warehouse conversions are new to Brisbane, with many apartments being built and renovated in the old industrial areas of Teneriffe, Fortitude Valley and West End. There has also been a surge in building residential units in inner-city areas. If you haven’t lived in a sub-tropical climate before, find out what you should look for in a house so that it stays naturally cool. For example, which direction does it face and does it have awnings, blinds or gardens that help deflect the sun’s heat? The Green Home factsheets include information for home owners about sustainable living practices. back to top Advertisements Start footer Advertise | Directory | Newsletters | About Us | Legals & Privacy | Contact Us | Help | Sitemap

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USA REAL ESTATE DIRECTORY - INDEXED BY STATE Real Estate Services Indexed by State FIND NEW HOMES | FIND RENTAL APARTMENTS | REAL ESTATE FORECLOSURES Valuecom Real Estate GOLD providesa nationwide forum of Real Estate Agent Listings indexed by state. If you are looking for a real estate agent in your state or one in a state you wish to inquire about propertiesplease select a state below to browse the listing. If you are an agent and would like to sponsor a particular state please contact us by clicking here . Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming ADD LISTING | | SPONSOR A STATE FIND APARTMENTS IN MAJOR US CITIES This service provided by Valuecom © 1995 - 2005 Roger Bredow Find Moving Companies Atlanta Piano Tuning Search for Alabama Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Alabama homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Alabama. Search for apartment rentals in AL, Alabama townhomes, or Real Estate in AL. Alabama Real Estate areas include Birmingham, Tuscaloosa, Mobile, Montgomery, Huntsville, Dothan, Albertville, Anniston, Auburn, Gulf Shores, Alexander City, Decatur, Enterprise, Florence, Fort Payne, Gadsden, Scottsboro, Selma, Troy, Tuskegee, in or about Alabama. Search for Alaska Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Alaska homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Alaska. Search for apartment rentals in AK, Alaska townhomes, or Real Estate in AK. Alaska Real Estate areas include Fairbanks, Anchorage, Juneau, Ketchikan, Kodiak, in or about Alaska. Search for Arizona Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Arizona homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Arizona. Search for apartment rentals in AZ, Arizona townhomes, or Real Estate in AZ. Arizona Real Estate areas include Tucson, Phoenix, Flagstaff, Yuma, Sierra Vista, Prescott, Payson, Lake Havasu City-Kingman, Show Low, in or about Arizona. 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Maine Real Estate areas include Portland, Augusta, Bangor, Farmington, Brunswick, Lewiston-Auburn, Rockland, Waterville, Bar Harbor, Presque Isle, in or about Maine. Search for Maryland Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Maryland homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Maryland. Search for apartment rentals in MD, Maryland townhomes, or Real Estate in MD. Maryland Real Estate areas include Baltimore, Annapolis, Gaithersburg, Frederick, Cambridge, Cumberland, Hagerstown-Martinsburg, Lexington Park, Ocean Pines, Salisbury, in or about Maryland. Search for Massachusetts Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Massachusetts homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Massachusetts. Search for apartment rentals in MA, Massachusetts townhomes, or Real Estate in MA. Massachusetts Real Estate areas include Boston, Worcester, Springfield, Lowell, Framingham, Pittsfield, Taunton, Leominster-Fitchburg, Haverhill, Nantucket, Lawrence, Martha's Vineyard, Amherst, North Shore, Salem, Cape Cod, New Bedford, Brockton, in or about Massachusetts. Search for Michigan Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Michigan homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Michigan. Search for apartment rentals in MI, Michigan townhomes, or Real Estate in MI. Michigan Real Estate areas include Detroit, Grand Rapids, Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Battle Creek, Midland, Royal Oak, Saginaw, Benton Harbor, Jackson, Cadillac, Bay City, Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Traverse City, Monroe, Big Rapids, Houghton, Holland, Mount Pleasant, Marquette, Sault Ste. Marie, Gaylord, in or about Michigan. Search for Minnesota Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Minnesota homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Minnesota. Search for apartment rentals in MN, Minnesota townhomes, or Real Estate in MN. Minnesota Real Estate areas include Minneapolis-St. Paul, New Ulm, Worthington, Winona, St. Cloud, Northfield-Faribault, Mankato, Marshall, Red Wing, Bemidji, Brainerd, Rochester, Duluth, Lake of the Woods, Detroit Lakes, Thief River Falls, in or about Minnesota. Search for Mississippi Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Mississippi homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Mississippi. Search for apartment rentals in MS, Mississippi townhomes, or Real Estate in MS. Mississippi Real Estate areas include Jackson, Corinth, Gulfport-Biloxi, Columbus, Greenville, Greenwood, Grenada, Hattiesburg, Laurel, Meridian, Oxford, Pascagoula, Starkville, Tupelo, Vicksburg, in or about Mississippi. Search for Missouri Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Missouri homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Missouri. 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Nebraska Real Estate areas include Omaha, Lincoln, Fremont, Grand Island, Hastings, Kearney, North Platte, Scottsbluff, Norfolk, Columbus, in or about Nebraska. Search for Nevada Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Nevada homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Nevada. Search for apartment rentals in NV, Nevada townhomes, or Real Estate in NV. Nevada Real Estate areas include Las Vegas, Reno, Carson City, Elko, Fallon, in or about Nevada. Search for New Hampshire Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , New Hampshire homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in New Hampshire. Search for apartment rentals in NH, New Hampshire townhomes, or Real Estate in NH. New Hampshire Real Estate areas include Manchester, Concord, Nashua, Rochester-Dover, Portsmouth, Berlin, Keene, Lebanon, Lake Winnipesaukee, in or about New Hampshire. 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Ohio Real Estate areas include Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Ashland, Ashtabula, Mansfield, Lima, Springfield, Canton, Youngstown, Athens, Chillicothe, Findlay, Portsmouth, Sandusky, in or about Ohio. Search for Oklahoma Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Oklahoma homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Oklahoma. Search for apartment rentals in OK, Oklahoma townhomes, or Real Estate in OK. Oklahoma Real Estate areas include Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Ada, Lawton, Altus, Ardmore, Bartlesville, Duncan, Durant, Enid, McAlester, Muskogee, Shawnee, Stillwater, Tahlequah, Guymon, in or about Oklahoma. Search for Oregon Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Oregon homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Oregon. Search for apartment rentals in OR, Oregon townhomes, or Real Estate in OR. Oregon Real Estate areas include Portland, Eugene, Salem, Bend, Brookings, Medford, Astoria, Corvallis, Albany, The Dalles, Coos Bay, Grants Pass, Klamath Falls, La Grande, Roseburg, Pendleton, in or about Oregon. Search for Pennsylvania Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Pennsylvania homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Pennsylvania. Search for apartment rentals in PA, Pennsylvania townhomes, or Real Estate in PA. Pennsylvania Real Estate areas include Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Erie, Lancaster, Altoona, Scranton--Wilkes-Barre, Reading, Lewisburg, Harrisburg, Johnstown, Chambersburg, Lebanon, State College, Williamsport, York, Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Gettysburg, Huntingdon, in or about diana, Meadville, New Castle, Warren, in or about Pennsylvania. Search for Rhode Island Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Rhode Island homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Rhode Island. Search for apartment rentals in RI, Rhode Island townhomes, or Real Estate in RI. Rhode Island Real Estate areas include Providence, in or about Rhode Island. Search for South Carolina Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , South Carolina homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in South Carolina. Search for apartment rentals in SC, South Carolina townhomes, or Real Estate in SC. South Carolina Real Estate areas include Charleston, Columbia, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, Lancaster, Greenwood, Hilton Head Island, Georgetown, Florence, Sumter, Newberry, Orangeburg, Chester, Seneca, Spartanburg, Union, Anderson, Gaffney, Walterboro, in or about South Carolina. Search for South Dakota Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , South Dakota homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in South Dakota. Search for apartment rentals in SD, South Dakota townhomes, or Real Estate in SD. South Dakota Real Estate areas include Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Aberdeen, Brookings, Huron, Mitchell, Pierre, Spearfish, Watertown, Vermillion-Yankton, in or about South Dakota. Search for Tennessee Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Tennessee homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Tennessee. Search for apartment rentals in TN, Tennessee townhomes, or Real Estate in TN. Tennessee Real Estate areas include Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Sevierville, Cookeville-Crossville, Athens, Clarksville, Cleveland, Columbia, Harriman, Jackson, Johnson City, Kingsport, Martin, Morristown, Paris, Tullahoma, in or about Tennessee. Search for Texas Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Texas homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Texas. Search for apartment rentals in TX, Texas townhomes, or Real Estate in TX. Texas Real Estate areas include Dallas, Fort Worth, El Paso, San Antonio, Amarillo, Austin, Waco, Lubbock, Midland-Odessa, Corpus Christi, Laredo, Brownsville, Abilene, Beaumont, Wichita Falls, Houston, Killeen, College Station, Texarkana, Brownwood, Del Rio, Huntsville, Kingsville, Longview, Lufkin, Marshall, McAllen-Edinburg, Nacogdoches, Plainview, San Angelo, Sherman, Stephenville, Tyler, Victoria, in or about Texas. Search for Utah Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Utah homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Utah. Search for apartment rentals in UT, Utah townhomes, or Real Estate in UT. Utah Real Estate areas include Salt Lake City, St. George, Provo, Logan, Ogden, in or about Utah. Search for Vermont Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Vermont homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Vermont. Search for apartment rentals in VT, Vermont townhomes, or Real Estate in VT. Vermont Real Estate areas include Burlington, Montpelier, Rutland, St. Johnsbury-Newport, Brattleboro, Bennington, in or about Vermont. Search for Virginia Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Virginia homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Virginia. Search for apartment rentals in VA, Virginia townhomes, or Real Estate in VA. Virginia Real Estate areas include Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Richmond, Newport News, Fredericksburg, Roanoke, Lynchburg, Charlottesville, Williamsburg, Blacksburg, Danville, Harrisonburg, Martinsville, Lexington, Staunton-Waynesboro, Winchester, in or about Virginia. Search for Washington Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Washington homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Washington. Search for apartment rentals in WA, Washington townhomes, or Real Estate in WA. Washington Real Estate areas include Seattle, Spokane, Tacoma, Vancouver, Olympia, Yakima, Bellingham, Kennewick-Richland, Longview, Wenatchee, Bremerton-Silverdale, Walla Walla, Ellensburg, Moses Lake, Port Angeles, Pullman, Mount Vernon, Oak Harbor, Centralia, Aberdeen, Shelton, in or about Washington. Search for Washington DC Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Washington DC homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Washington DC. Search for apartment rentals in DC, Washington DC townhomes, or Real Estate in DC. Washington DC Real Estate areas include in Washington DC. Search for West Virginia Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , West Virginia homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in West Virginia. Search for apartment rentals in WV, West Virginia townhomes, or Real Estate in WV. West Virginia Real Estate areas include Huntington, Charleston, Morgantown, Parkersburg-Marietta, Weirton-Steubenville, Wheeling, Beckley, Bluefield, Clarksburg, Fairmont, Point Pleasant, in or about West Virginia. Search for Wisconsin Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Wisconsin homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Wisconsin. Search for apartment rentals in WI, Wisconsin townhomes, or Real Estate in WI. Wisconsin Real Estate areas include Madison, Green Bay, Milwaukee, La Crosse, Appleton, Eau Claire, Janesville, Oshkosh-Neenah, Racine, Sheboygan, Wausau, Baraboo, Beaver Dam, Fond du Lac, Manitowoc, Marinette, Menomonie, Platteville, Stevens Point, Watertown-Fort Atkinson, Whitewater, Wisconsin Rapids-Marshfield, in or about Wisconsin. Search for Wyoming Real Estate, home rentals, Real Estate , Wyoming homes for rent, houses for rent, rental homes, and apartments in Wyoming. Search for apartment rentals in WY, Wyoming townhomes, or Real Estate in WY. Wyoming Real Estate areas include Cheyenne, Casper, Evanston, Gillette, Jackson, Laramie, Riverton, Rock Springs, Sheridan, in or about Wyoming.